Ghosting?

[Robert Jones]

This home is 8 yrs old. The living room has vaulted ceiling with this staining in different areas. The majority of the ghosting issues I have seen have all been truss outline. This staining is the area between the trusses. Still ghosting? It was dry when tested with a moisture meter.

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[Jim Katen]

This home is 8 yrs old. The living room has vaulted ceiling with this staining in different areas. The majority of the ghosting issues I have seen have all been truss outline. This staining is the area between the trusses. Still ghosting? It was dry when tested with a moisture meter.

. .

Missing insulation batts.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Robert Jones]

Thanks for the reply Jim. So that section is not insulated?

[Richard Moore]

I don't want to say for sure that it's not ghosting, but it's an odd pattern for that and wouldn't be my first guess. The cross-hatching is weird. Going strictly from the photos, I'd say they used the world's worst ceiling painters. Or the homeowner tried to stretch half a gallon of paint over something that needed a full one.

But Jim is probably right...he usually is.

[Jim Katen]

Thanks for the reply Jim. So that section is not insulated?

That would be my first guess. The batt isn't tucked in between the rafters and air is circulating over the drywall in the dark areas, leading to ghosting.

You could confirm it with an IR camera or a small hammer.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Robert Jones]

Hey Richard,

My other pic didn't come out the best that showed the rest of the ceiling. The section that is noticeable is almost perfectly rectangular, but, there are other areas along that ceiling with more stains that aren't quite that uniform. There is a gas fireplace in the lower left hand of that photo, but I don't think it's causing what is visible.

[hausdok]

I agree with Jim,

I find that most of these insulation guys are lazy as hell when it comes to insulating those catedral ceilings. I think they must be nervous about sliding down into those narrow spaces over the ceiling and tucking the batts in properly because the batting is often there but was just tossed between the trusses and no attempt made to tuck it down between the joists against the ceiling, especially wherever there are wires crossing the trusses.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Richard Moore]

Jim...do you think a regular IR thermometer, up close to the areas, would be sensitive enough to see a difference?

[Ben H]

I'm sure it's not, but looks like a real bad paint job like Richard said.

[Jim Katen]

Jim...do you think a regular IR thermometer, up close to the areas, would be sensitive enough to see a difference?

Probably, yes.

Years ago, before I could even dream about an IR camera, I was hired to diagnose a water problem in a bank. The issue was the neighbor's scupper, which was clogged and was overflowing over the bank's CMU wall. To illustrate the problem, I used my IR thermometer to take temp readings of the wall in every square of a 1'x1' grid over the entire wall. I plotted the temperatures on a graph and assigned colors to them to make my own manually-generated thermograph. (Heck, I had to do something -- I had already diagnosed the problem within seconds of driving up to the site.)

While it took a while to do (I was getting paid by the hour, by the way) it produced a very satisfactory image that was just as useful as an IR image would have been.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[plummen]

I'm sure it's not, but looks like a real bad paint job like Richard said.

Ive got to agree on the paint,of course im not an inspector though

[John Kogel]

I vote with Jim and Mike. Missing insulation fits the pattern better than bad paint.

It could be dirt or soot from scented candles with a bit of condensation in the cooler surface where the insulation isn't done right.

The lines are too straight for a sloppy painter. []

[hausdok]

The lines are too straight for a sloppy painter. []

Exactly,

The insulation guys around here use the cut batts that come in packaged bales and you can see both ends of that batt clearly defined.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Ben H]

I vote with Jim and Mike. Missing insulation fits the pattern better than bad paint.

It could be dirt or soot from scented candles with a bit of condensation in the cooler surface where the insulation isn't done right.

The lines are too straight for a sloppy painter. []

That is true about the first pic, the second howerver looks to me like a bunch of small missed roller spots.[]

[hausdok]

I vote with Jim and Mike. Missing insulation fits the pattern better than bad paint.

It could be dirt or soot from scented candles with a bit of condensation in the cooler surface where the insulation isn't done right.

The lines are too straight for a sloppy painter. []

That is true about the first pic, the second howerver looks to me like a bunch of small missed roller spots.[]

But it isn't. You have to know this market to understand that it is gaps around the insulation and where batts have only been shoved halfway into the bays. Yeah, they might have tried to paint over it and found that it didn't work, but it's caused by improperly installed insulation; I'd make book on it.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Bryan]

I agree with Jim,

I find that most of these insulation guys are lazy as hell when it comes to insulating those catedral ceilings. I think they must be nervous about sliding down into those narrow spaces over the ceiling and tucking the batts in properly because the batting is often there but was just tossed between the trusses and no attempt made to tuck it down between the joists against the ceiling, especially wherever there are wires crossing the trusses.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

Do they insulate the cathedral ceilings after the drywall is hung out their?

[hausdok]

Sure,

Why, do they insulate cathedral ceilings before the drywall is done there?

OT - OF!!!

M.

[Bryan]

Sure,

Why, do they insulate cathedral ceilings before the drywall is done there?

OT - OF!!!

M.

Yes if they are using Batts. I have seen chopped fiberglass as well as cellulose installed after the drywall; however, never Batts.

[hausdok]

Hi,

Well, around here they use mostly batts over catedral ceilings because the loose stuff is only going to slide to the bottom of the bay and won't be much good down there.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Bill Kibbel]

Mike,

How do they staple the flanges when installing batts AFTER the drywall?

[hausdok]

You're assuming they use kraft-paper-faced batts but they don't - at least the smart builders don't; they use unfaced batting here. Around here, faced batting is generally used under the floors or in the walls. Occasionally I see it in attics but not often. The stuff I see here doesn't have any "flanges."

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Jim Katen]

Mike,

How do they staple the flanges when installing batts AFTER the drywall?

They used unfaced batts. That way, they match the unfaced blown-in stuff.

In my area, here's how it works:

The insulation crew installs batts in the walls and in those portions of the ceilings that they figure they won't be able to get to when they come back with the blower. The ceiling batts are unfaced and are only held in place by friction.

Next, the drywall crew comes in and places the lids. When they're doing this, they sometimes push the ceiling batts up out of the way so that they can reach their hands up around the rafters or bottom chords to get a grip to make it easier to screw in their panels. Anyone who has ever installed ceiling drywall will know how this goes.

If the drywall crew members are honest and good fellows with a deep and abiding concern for their fellow tradesmen and the quality of their finished product, they will carefully pull the disturbed batts back down again. On rare occasions, however, one of these fine fellows might, in the fervor of the moment, neglect this last step.

And that's what I think happened in Rob's pictures.

- Jim Katen, Oregon