mgbinspect Posted February 2, 2010 Report Posted February 2, 2010 And another hearty good morning regarding the same home. Here are some lovely pictures of a floating wood floor system: According to the box it's DURENBC 3/8 X 3 ENGINEERED PREFINISH SCHON 30 BRAZILIAN CHERRY It has developed some wicked buckles. The buyers informed me that the builder's fix-it guys came out and started nailing the floor down to get rid of the buckles, which seemed like an IMMEDIATE red flag to me. I assume the buckles came from not leaving enough expansion/contraction room at the perimeter and face nailing the outer pieces was the exact opposite of what should have been done. They have more material, so I'm recommending they replace the nailed outer pieces and leave ample room for the material to expand and contract. Any additional or contrasting thoughts before I etch this in stone? Click to Enlarge 32.28 KB Click to Enlarge 28.14 KB Click to Enlarge 37.15 KB Click to Enlarge 50.02 KB BTW, I'm really unimpressed with this material. I thought most floating floor material is supposed to be durable, but the dog has marred the everlonvin' crap out of this finish - tragic...
kurt Posted February 2, 2010 Report Posted February 2, 2010 I thought Schon made floating engineered flooring....(?).....any nails is wrong. There isn't a fix. Tear it all out. Start over.
mgbinspect Posted February 2, 2010 Author Report Posted February 2, 2010 Yup, I agree, accept they only face nailed the outer three or four pieces similar to a standard hardwood floor install. The rest of the flooring remains un-nailed, so I think once the nailed down peices are removed from the system and ample expansion room is provided, things will be OK. Agreed?
Tom Raymond Posted February 2, 2010 Report Posted February 2, 2010 That depends on how the panels are connected to one another. Clips or glue and you might be able to remove and replace panels, click lock type T&G will be damned near impossible to snap in the new planks. Based on the third pic I gotta wonder what else going on there, that looks like water damage not just binding issues. The scratches in the finish are typical. Hard polyurethane finshes have no business on floors, yet they're the staple of the prefinish market. A softer finish won't scratch nearly as easily and is far easier to repair. My personal favorite is antique oil and paste wax, ever see a gym floor with gouges in the finish? Tom
mgbinspect Posted February 2, 2010 Author Report Posted February 2, 2010 Yup, water damage is on my radar screen, but doesn't seem likely so far... That buckle is behind a brick veneered front exterior wall in the living room, so I'll be paying close attention to that exterior wall surface and roofing above.
Tom Raymond Posted February 2, 2010 Report Posted February 2, 2010 Uhm, are we all on an inspection in real time? Tom
kurt Posted February 2, 2010 Report Posted February 2, 2010 Nope, I'm typing yesterdays report and staring out my window at the snow. Engineered flooring repairs can be remarkably sneaky, as Tom suggests. Be careful what you suggest, mi amigo......
mgbinspect Posted February 2, 2010 Author Report Posted February 2, 2010 I am inspecting this very home at this very moment. I really like knowing there's a committee (my brain-trust) that I can turn to in instances like this. It blows away the old addage that "two heads are better than one." [:-graduat
Tom Raymond Posted February 2, 2010 Report Posted February 2, 2010 I am inspecting this bery home at this very moment... I thought so. You really do have ADD if you can post here while you inspect.[:-angel] So if this is the next evolution of TIJ, when do we get the video feed? Tom
mgbinspect Posted February 2, 2010 Author Report Posted February 2, 2010 Well, this is a home owner's inspection, so they have all left the house to me for the day and actually know I've uploaded this stuff. They're impressed and couldn't be happier. No Video, but when it comes to conditions like this, the faster they're documented and solutions are being appealed for, the better. I see TIJ as an invaluable field reference. Thanks for your input! What, you thought I was kidding about ADD/HDD. Like I said, "Ask my momma." She'll tell ya that at two she found me atop the refrigerator goin' after the cookies and at five I was found blocks from home helping the garbage men load trash in the truck, which I'm sure they thought was just dandy...
Marc Posted February 2, 2010 Report Posted February 2, 2010 I wouldn't even begin trying to give directions to correct this faulty installation. Rip it all out and start over with a good and thorough reading of the manufacturer's installation instructions. Too many people are doing this wrong. Marc
mgbinspect Posted February 2, 2010 Author Report Posted February 2, 2010 Nope, I'm typing yesterdays report and staring out my window at the snow. Engineered flooring repairs can be remarkably sneaky, as Tom suggests. Be careful what you suggest, mi amigo...... Message delivered - message received. Thanks for the words of caution, Kurt, Tom and Marc. I'll recommend a specialist. In the now famous words of Underdog, "Bless you kind sirs."
mgbinspect Posted February 2, 2010 Author Report Posted February 2, 2010 BTW, Tom, the joists, sub-floor, header joist and sill plate behind the front brick veneer and under that wicked buckle all look perfecto. No visible or apparent moisture - not even efflorescence on the blockwork... Say, I have never realized that it was common to glue tongue and groove flooring like this. Kinda defeats the whole purpose of tongue and groove doesn't it? Shows how much I know technically about the system. For the most part, it usually falls into the cosmetic department until somthing like this rises its ugly head...
Tom Raymond Posted February 2, 2010 Report Posted February 2, 2010 I was thinking more along the lines of a burst pipe or similar major spill, it generally takes a pretty good soaking to make a wood floor buckle like that. Maybe it's just a combination of factors like missing underlayment, poor fastening from plank to plank, and no room for expansion; they obviously had no clue what they were doing when they laid it. Floating floors are strange animals, especially wooden ones. There are as many different ways of fastening them as there are substrates, cores and surfaces available. The manufacturers instructions are really the only way to know if it was done right or not. Tom
mgbinspect Posted February 3, 2010 Author Report Posted February 3, 2010 Yeah, I know what you mean about water damage and wood flooring. Every time I ever did a water damage job with pine flooring the buckling was so severe that the first order of the day was to saw out all the buckles in the flooring so folks could at least get around, while things dried out. Then, of course, pine flooring could never be saved. It all had to be ripped out. The buckling was always amazing - four to six inches and everywhere... The funny thing with this floor above is that every time the builder sent skeeta out he nailed some more, which jsut made matters worse.
Brandon Whitmore Posted February 3, 2010 Report Posted February 3, 2010 The funny thing with this floor above is that every time the builder sent skeeta out he nailed some more, which jsut made matters worse. Shoulda used screws[:-slaphap
Erby Posted February 3, 2010 Report Posted February 3, 2010 Why, it was already screwed up! Now you want to screw it down too! Don't you ever get enough?[:-monkeyd
esch Posted February 4, 2010 Report Posted February 4, 2010 Lack of gap around exterior edges? Mopping with damp mop instead of using no water-hardwood floor? Maybe they sealed pre-finished wood and it got in cracks causing buckling during swelling season? Water in general? Matt Tear it out, do it again... right
Ben H Posted February 4, 2010 Report Posted February 4, 2010 Perhaps the floor was never given the proper acclimation time.
Marc Posted February 4, 2010 Report Posted February 4, 2010 Perhaps the floor was never given the proper acclimation time. That's where my bet is. I see that kind of failure fairly often down here. Marc
mgbinspect Posted February 4, 2010 Author Report Posted February 4, 2010 If proper room was left at the perimeter for expansion / contraction and the material wasn't fastened to the floor, I can't imagine that being as crucial as it would be with normal T & G wood flooring. Just my guess, but isn't that supposed to be one of the advantages to a floating floor system?
Tom Raymond Posted February 4, 2010 Report Posted February 4, 2010 That, plus when I put it in my kitchen over the hydronic loop in the floor there were about 2000 less chances of nailing it to the PEX. Tom
mgbinspect Posted February 4, 2010 Author Report Posted February 4, 2010 Bubba's partner in crime. Clearly a Bible Belt partially endearing term for your typical local flunky handi-man with the Midas touch in reverse... [^] In this case, they're the "Good ole' boys" the builder sent to "fix" the floor a couple times with a hammer and a bag of nails, to which Chef, of Southpark fame might have said, "Damn, boy! What the HELL were you thinkin'?" [:-dunce]
Marc Posted February 4, 2010 Report Posted February 4, 2010 If proper room was left at the perimeter for expansion / contraction and the material wasn't fastened to the floor, I can't imagine that being as crucial as it would be with normal T & G wood flooring. Just my guess, but isn't that supposed to be one of the advantages to a floating floor system? It is, but I would suggest that to ignore the initial moisture content of the flooring prior to installing it is to abuse this feature. Marc
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