two jobs today

[Jim Morrison]

Mike,

You seem like a decent guy, but I'm going to take another point of view. Home inspection isn't an art. Only a home inspector could ever say something like that.

True, ours is a difficult job and impossible to quantify with anything approaching precision due to the innumerable differences in houses, but it's a lot more fartsy than artsy.

At it's essence, it's a matter of making sure you know all you can about houses and their components in general, and then sticking your mug into every corner it will fit into to look for problems. I was a half-decent home inspector before I was out of college, and I got to be pretty good at it not long after.

We have an important role to play in the world, but no more so than anyone else. It's self-aggrandizing to think we're artists because we know our way around an electrical panel.

As you might have guessed, I don't have an inspection to do today, so my hat is off to those of you who do. If you've managed to schedule two inspections, so much the better!

[mgbinspect]

I can't fault a word you said, Jim. And maybe "art" in the truest sense of the word is misapplied. What I mean by "art" is a "gift" a "knack for putting it all together into a reliable inspecting method and resulting report.

I meet guys that can spout code, chapter and verse, and speak of electric so far over my head I feel completely lost. Yet, these same guys just can't seem to put it all together.

But you are right, "art" is more and endearing than literal term.

It is two today, TG...

[Inspectorjoe]

..........

And, yet, It's a curious thing, Chad, I'll follow behind my competitors who are notorious for spending 4.5 to 5 hours inspecting homes and find things they overlooked wondering to myself how in the world did he miss THAT? .......

How would you know who inspected a house before you, and how would you know what was reported (or not reported)?

[hausdok]

Hi,

I don't think there is a "typical" home inspection. Everyone has a method that seems to work best for him or her. I used to do two, sometimes three, inspections a day. Then one day I went off a roof, nearly died and decided that it wasn't worth it anymore. It's the rare circumstance where I do more than one a day now, and that's by choice, and I never do three.

I'll never really know what happened, but I think I simply passed out due to exhaustion when I went off that roof. I had been doing 2 or 3 a day pretty consistently that month and was pretty much working round the clock with breaks only to eat, crap and sleep for 3-4 hours a night.

Since then, Yung, my wife, and I work together and we do one full inspection a day. They take anywhere from 3-1/2 to 6 hours each - sometimes longer. It generally takes me about 6 hours to write them up. I've tried every trick in the book to shorten that - nothing works. I inspect the way I do and I write the way I do and nothing is ever going to change that I guess.

We concentrate on giving the clients the absolute best inspection and report that we can and making sure that the client's questions, all of the clients questions, are answered and the client's expectations are fully met. Most real estate folks hate us but we really couldn't care less since we don't get our work from them. They can either accept the way we work and chill or they can sit and fret and stew; it's up to them.

Most of my clients are from foreign countries - India, China and Russia - more so than any other country, and they want to know their homes. They aren't satisfied with signing a contract and being told to sit down and wait; they want to participate, they want to ask questions and they want to learn.

I don't consider the clients a distraction at all and what I do is not a "dog and pony show" it's teaching and informing people about their prospective new homes. From the first day I started this business in 1996 until now, I've always called my inspections the "School of the House" and, for me anyway, it's second nature to simultaneously teach the clients about the house while I'm inspecting. I encourage them to ask questions; after all, they are paying me to provide them answers.

I'll tell you what used to drive me nuts when I was doing two or three a day - getting the houses mixed up in my head. Even with notes, sometimes your memory plays tricks. Having the clients with me doesn't cause me to miss things, if anything, it makes me more careful and it has the added benefit of adding a second and sometimes a third set of eyes on the house. I don't mind when the client points to something and asks a question; especially if they are asking about something that I might have missed but for that second set of eyes. Oh, by the way, I too have ADD. When Yung and I watched that animated video "Up" she laughed when the talking dog, Doug, was introducing himself to the old man and in mid-sentence got distracted by the squirrel and had to start the introduction all over again. She said, "That's just like you." I'd known about it - I just didn't realize it was that bad.

The consequence of that has been that, though I don't do two or three inspections a day, the work comes pretty consistently, and I charge enough so that one inspection a day with a fair degree of regularity through word of mouth referrals trumps the two or three a day at a lower fee that used to come in surges with periods of inactivity between.

It won't make me rich, but it works for me. It will be 14 years this April. To date, no lawsuits and no arbitrations and many many repeat customers. I just wish I hadn't been so old when I started this gig, 'cuz the physical aspect of the work is taking its toll. I don't know how much longer I'm going to be able to do this before these knees, which have been beaten bad their whole life, and this spine of mine, which I've been walking around with four fused vertebra and a herniated disk for the past 40 years, give out and tell me to go sit on my ass.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[kurt]

One, maybe two if I'm desperate. I can get desperate pretty easily nowadays.

Yeah, all that "house whisperer" stuff is silly. It's a finite box, and if I'm on my game, I find the stuff I'm supposed to find.

Sometimes, I'm not on my game.

The tricky part is recognizing when I'm not, so I can reorient and focus. It's all part of that "knowing what you don't know" thing.

It's not magic; it's physics mostly, and after that, it's recognizing things I've trained myself to recognize.

[Marc]

Interesting story Mike.

I think Mike's experience and perhaps that of others is indicative of a general trend in home inspection. Longer, more thorough inspections that do more and interpret more for the client, higher fees, fewer inspections per day.

Something else I anticipate that we will see in the future is a 2 person team. That fact that an inspector can't practically be in front of a laptop and in the attic/crawlspace/roof at the same time is the motivation for this 'marriage' between an assistant with fast typing skills and the inspector. Why have the inspector wasting hours of his time typing and driving between jobs when a more economical employee can do it?

The assistant is stationed at the laptop in the vehicle or house, the inspector is doing his thing calling out the findings as he inspects. They maintain voice contact via a wireless walkie talkie or some bluetooth arrangement. The assistant is more economical than another inspector so that saves on payroll. More inspections get done per day and each more quickly which imposes less on the client's time. Inspector feels free to call out more findings without a time penalty which allows for a more thorough report and his focus is not interrupted every minute or so to record information. The assistant drives between jobs while the inspector proofs and fine tunes the report.

It could be a good marriage.

Marc

[Jim Morrison]

People (like me) who have done it will tell you that the two-person inspection team is superior in almost every aspect. The problem is: No two-person team can make as much money separately as they can together. It's a better model in every other way to be sure. It just isn't economically viable. Too few of us single operators are making what we deserve, let alone a two-person team.

[Les]

Marc,

that has been done by many across the nation. There are whole organizations that are predicated on the the "home team" approach. Walter Jowers perfected it as far as I am aware.

I have worked several variations of it over the years. First experience was when I tried to pass off a female as a real deal home inspector.(1980's) Didn't work. Mike and Jung are not the norm. Their system and protocols keep the job in focus. Normally with two people there is some confusion.

I am of the opinion this business must be based on education and training yourself to think within particular parameters. You simply can't observe and report everything you know about a house after spending a little time on-site. I really believe I could bull-shit with you for hours while sitting in the kitchen of any house just telling you about materials, hazards, etc. The average experienced inspector can amaze you with what they know.

I think a person can do as many inspections as they want. Somewhere on this forum, John Ghent mentioned $45 inspections in 1957. That is true. In the 1970's they were $50 and you could do 4-5ea per day. Different times and expectations. Today we have an inspection product that is cheap, check-list and meaningful for the client. You can do three of them every day. Don't even begin to tell me all inspections must be the same SOP etc. It is a product and a service. I have done some of the best, 400+ pages and some of the absolute pos reports.

It is all about thinking after education. I will wager Jim, Les, Kurt, Katen and many others can intimidate nearly every inspector with the scope of knowledge and experience. Do not ever think everyone can do this job.

maybe more later

[hausdok]

Interesting story Mike.

I think Mike's experience and perhaps that of others is indicative of a general trend in home inspection. Longer, more thorough inspections that do more and interpret more for the client, higher fees, fewer inspections per day.

Something else I anticipate that we will see in the future is a 2 person team. That fact that an inspector can't practically be in front of a laptop and in the attic/crawlspace/roof at the same time is the motivation for this 'marriage' between an assistant with fast typing skills and the inspector. Why have the inspector wasting hours of his time typing and driving between jobs when a more economical employee can do it?

The assistant is stationed at the laptop in the vehicle or house, the inspector is doing his thing calling out the findings as he inspects. They maintain voice contact via a wireless walkie talkie or some bluetooth arrangement. The assistant is more economical than another inspector so that saves on payroll. More inspections get done per day and each more quickly which imposes less on the client's time. Inspector feels free to call out more findings without a time penalty which allows for a more thorough report and his focus is not interrupted every minute or so to record information. The assistant drives between jobs while the inspector proofs and fine tunes the report.

It could be a good marriage.

Marc

I actually did that for a while in 2001/2002. I paired up with one of the guys that I'd mentored. We both wore FM intercom headsets and would swap off on the computer. It worked pretty well except Jimmy is right, it wasn't very economical.

A while back I posted a fictional story about inspections in the year 2025 wherein we inspector would be hooked up via video/audio headsets to a central typing pool overseen by by a superb report writer. I think that could be done economically and would be superior in every respect.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Jim Katen]

. . . Something else I anticipate that we will see in the future is a 2 person team. That fact that an inspector can't practically be in front of a laptop and in the attic/crawlspace/roof at the same time is the motivation for this 'marriage' between an assistant with fast typing skills and the inspector. Why have the inspector wasting hours of his time typing and driving between jobs when a more economical employee can do it?

The assistant is stationed at the laptop in the vehicle or house, the inspector is doing his thing calling out the findings as he inspects. They maintain voice contact via a wireless walkie talkie or some bluetooth arrangement. The assistant is more economical than another inspector so that saves on payroll. More inspections get done per day and each more quickly which imposes less on the client's time. Inspector feels free to call out more findings without a time penalty which allows for a more thorough report and his focus is not interrupted every minute or so to record information. The assistant drives between jobs while the inspector proofs and fine tunes the report.

It could be a good marriage.

Marc

I have some experience with that. The partnership can take a long time to develop into an efficent machine. Until then, everything takes longer. One of my business partners used an assistant for years. When I hurt myself a few years back, he loaned me his assistant for a few months. It was great, but not at all fast. We never really reached the point where we meshed into an efficient unit. (Then he took off to play in Iraq for his second tour of duty, lucky boy.)

I occasionally work with one or more of my partners on large or complicated projects. It increases our capacity but not our speed.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[kurt]

I like the idea of a helper, but not necessarily a "partner" in the inspection.

Unless it was like Walter and Rick, or Mike and Jung.

It'd be nice to have someone haul ladders and tools, run downstairs to grab the tool I forgot in the basement, drive the truck while I snoozed, maybe pick up the phone if I was busy with a customer. Maybe they could run around and do the window inventory, or perform the basic plumbing stuff like shaking toilets, checking valves and fixtures, looking for leaks in vanities, stuff like that.

Yes, an assistant would be mighty nice. No inspection partner though; it'd take forever to get us both on the same page. If I had an inspection partner, it'd have to be a Mike and Jung operation.

[mgbinspect]

Joe, Two ways:

1. The previous buyers walked and the listing agent shoved the previous inspection in my face, to which I always say, "I'd prefer not to see it until I'm done. Then, we can see together how I did." It's a nice double-check of myself, but I don't want such information up front. I'd much rather it condemns me than makes me feel like I cheated.

2. Relocation properties where a corporation has assumed the property. They do the same thing - offer the relo inspection report to buyers hoping they will elect not to have their own inspection.

I actually get no great pleasure in finding other inspector's misses. And to this day, God as my witness, I've NEVER bashed a fellow inspector - I won't do it. When folks call me in litigation to inspect behind one of my fellow inspectors, I always decline - "No thanks". For me, it's an "honor among thieves deal." I couldn't live with myself. The ole' purple Barney song, "I love you - you love me." Is more my style. Kinda like Randy said, "Peace and love, man. Peace and love.."

But, I do like seeing how I did afterwords, and severely beating myself if I missed something, which doesn't happen often. And, I'm such a freak about being honest that a part of my severe punishment is admitting it before all present when I review the previous report.

[kurt]

Today we have an inspection product that is cheap, check-list and meaningful for the client. You can do three of them every day.

Don't even begin to tell me all inspections must be the same SOP etc. It is a product and a service.

I could see that as a real option; a "quick" checklist report for someone that's looking to get into a house and do the work (or sub it out) themselves. A report that says "here's the basics; deal with them".

The problems with reporting go to all these IT professionals, or corporate types, that don't own a screwdriver, let alone know which end to hold. They are the uptight-ski's that fret over a loose outlet, or who believe their plumber when they're told they have to change out all the toilets because they might explode.

I've been staying alive lately by providing different products and services to folks that don't want or need a State approved "home inspection". In a lot of cases, a State approved "home inspection" is nearly worthless; folks need what they need, and I try to figure that out and provide it to them.

[Bain]

I disagreed with the premise that no complaints = satisfied clients; nothing else.

I'm betting we'd all be surprised by how many dissatisfied clients we have in our pasts. Not because of incompetence or lack of work ethic, but because we look at houses, which are complex and complicated. There are a gajillion things we can't see or predict, and of course mechanical devices do suddenly and capriciously fail.

My own A/C system worked fine all summer, but the condenser turned into a big ice cube during Labor Day weekend. If I had inspected my A/C system in July, I would have told you it was cruising along just fine. But a month later? The system had to be replaced. Am I a hack? No, I'm not. Just ask me.

And a couple of years ago, I looked at a house on my own street for a hottie I hoped to woo into a date at some point. Six months after she moved in, though, a leak developed around her chimney and the flashing had to be reworked. Now, I walk down the street with my dog, and the hottie makes a point of turning her head in the opposite direction 'cause she thinks I screwed up.

Like it or not, you can find thousands of dollars of flubs for a client, but he'll consider you a hack if he has to pay a plumber to adjust a running commode two months after taking possession.

[mgbinspect]

Truer words were never spoken, Bain. Like I always say, "If you wish to be remembered forever, in this business, just miss something!"

Regarding multiple inspections... I just finished my second a while ago and took a little power-nap before writing them.

I think you guys have made me tired just thinking about all this... so tired, in fact, that you might have actually pushed me over the edge that I've been flirting with... reforming to two a day... Whew!.. It's probably time... I ain't getting any younger...

[John Dirks Jr]

Dangit...all I wanted to do was talk about my peanut butter sando. Talk about a morph? This is good stuff.

[mgbinspect]

Regarding partnerships - I've had three business partners early in my career and it never seems to work out. It's guaranteed that one will carry the other and in my case it was always me doing the carrying. I always laid the lion's share of the brick while the partner stood around and talked about laying the brick. I learned very early that partnerships are typically a one way street. Think very lonnnnggg and harrrrrd about entering into a business partnership! [:-nonono]

[Jerry Simon]

It'd be nice to have someone haul ladders and tools, run downstairs to grab the tool I forgot in the basement, drive the truck while I snoozed, maybe pick up the phone if I was busy with a customer.

Hell, I can't even get someone to bring me coffee...

[Erby]

Watch the "on wheat", John. Wheat generates smelly gasses.

Instead of pooped, you'll be gassed.

-

[John Dirks Jr]

Watch the "on wheat", John. Wheat generates smelly gasses.

Instead of pooped, you'll be gassed.

-

Not to mention if I decide to add a protein shake to the mix.

[plummen]

John, back in the eighties working for someone else, I would do 3 per day six days a week. That included some septic inspections and could be a 30-45 minute ride between inspections, reading maps along the way. Barely had time for lunch. It actually didn't tire me out; I was in much better shape.

just wondering what all is involved when you do a septic inspection.Im guessing the tank needs to be pumped down but do you camera the line from house to tank? How do you check the laterals leaving tank by looking for soft ground?

Ive never done one myself,but have torn out a few to install sanitary sewer and did one install years ago.