Inspect the same house twice in one day?

[hausdok]

My policy is that I never re-sell inspection reports. If someone wants my report on a house that I've previously inspected, they can make an appointment with me, I'll go through the inspection contract with them, they can sign that contract and then I'll do a completely new inspection and write another report and they can pay me for my work.

I won't do an inspection on the same house for a different client until the first client has told me he or she is no longer interested in the house. I do nott charge any less for a second client than I charged for the first client; my liability is just as great with the second as it was for the first, so why would I?

I've pissed off more than one agent by telling them that when they've called up hoping to get a copy of a report after a client has walked.

By the way, here in Washington State under the new law, doing an inspection for a second client on the same house would still require a contact, the inspection would have to be done to the state standard and would require a fully-compliant written report; unless it's a pre-offer consultation where they only want a limited inspection and a verbal - in which case they still have to execute a contract spelling out the complete scope of what's going to be looked at during that limited inspection.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Marc]

Looks like we're divided on this issue.

Let's look at it from a different perspective...Supposed YOU are one of the two buyers interested in this one house and the connection is made at some point in time that another buyer in competition with you has the same report (produced by the same inspector) that you paid for. Wouldn't that make you wonder if that other buyer paid the inspector too. And if he did? Wouldn't you feel taken, betrayed?

Keep in mind that a home buyer is likely to be much more emotional than the inspector.

Marc

[mgbinspect]

[ After thinking about it, I called back and said we couldn't do the inspection. It just seems there are too many possibilities for something to go wrong down the road.

I ended up referring a good inspector friend who'se having a terrible year. We're up 35% from last year, so i don't feel so bad about turning away the business.

Seems to me you did a good and noble thing all around. Kudos!

[Jim Katen]

Looks like we're divided on this issue.

Let's look at it from a different perspective...Supposed YOU are one of the two buyers interested in this one house and the connection is made at some point in time that another buyer in competition with you has the same report (produced by the same inspector) that you paid for.

But that's a faulty assumption. I wouldn't re-sell a report. I'd do fresh inspection and a fresh report. If the reports resemble each other, so be it. However, because of the customized nature of my reports, they would not be the same report. If I do a second inspection, it doesn't change the first inspection in any way.

Wouldn't that make you wonder if that other buyer paid the inspector too. And if he did? Wouldn't you feel taken, betrayed?

It would certainly make me wonder and I might do a double take but I honestly wouldn't feel betrayed. Nothing even close. But that's just me.

I can see your point though. If an inspector were to produce an exact duplicate report then that would be, let's say, mercenary. Because of the way I write my reports, I'm not sure that I could produce an exact duplicate if I tried.

My main point is that the first customer got his inspection and his report. What I do later on that same day has no effect on that work product.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[mgbinspect]

I'd just have to pass. It just wouldn't feel right. I would feel like I was merely going through the motions the second time around. That's just me. It would bug me. Not to mention that all too human possibility that on the second one you noticed something somewhat significant that you missed on the first one. Dang it!..

[Richard Moore]

... Not to mention that all too human possibility that on the second one you noticed something somewhat significant that you missed on the first one. Dang it!..

Which adds a new wrinkle, doesn't it? Do you inform the first client of something significant you missed and found on the second client's dime? Isn't that new info also confidential? Potentially, just too messy for me.

[hausdok]

... Not to mention that all too human possibility that on the second one you noticed something somewhat significant that you missed on the first one. Dang it!..

Which adds a new wrinkle, doesn't it? Do you inform the first client of something significant you missed and found on the second client's dime? Isn't that new info also confidential? Potentially, just too messy for me.

Which is exactly why I won't do them unless the first client has walked away from the home.

OT - OF!!!

M.

[Brandon Whitmore]

Which adds a new wrinkle, doesn't it? Do you inform the first client of something significant you missed and found on the second client's dime? Isn't that new info also confidential? Potentially, just too messy for me.

I can pretty much guarantee that I'd find at least some more minor issues for the second report. I'd be surprised to find anything that was actually important/ significant (I might as well camp out at some houses), but you never know. I can tell you I've seen things during my client walkthrough that had me wondering if I was blind the first time around.

If both clients wanted the inspection done prior to making an offer on the home, I'd sure think that the 2nd client would want the first to know if there was a major issue that would affect an offer price on the home. (yeah, nice run on I know). Otherwise, the 2nd client would have more of a chance on losing out on the bid/ offer. If I found something major that I'd missed, I'd be honest with my 2nd clients about it, and get their permission to disclose that info. to the first. Anyone have any reason to think the 2nd client wouldn't want this info. known to other bidders?

[Jim Katen]

... Not to mention that all too human possibility that on the second one you noticed something somewhat significant that you missed on the first one. Dang it!..

Which adds a new wrinkle, doesn't it? Do you inform the first client of something significant you missed and found on the second client's dime? Isn't that new info also confidential? Potentially, just too messy for me.

Washington state law, Oregon state law, and most of the association standards prohibit you from disclosing the information to someone other than your client. You do the first inspection for the first client and the second inspection for the second client. They're two separate and unrelated transactions. Just because a client hires me to inspect a house in the morning, it doesn't mean that he gets to tell me who I can work for and what I can inspect later that afternoon. Each client gets exactly what he paid for. How is it wrinkled and messy?

Whether you all want to admit it or not, every one of us misses stuff on every inspection. If you do a second inspection on a house, you'll find stuff that you missed on the first inspection. You'll also find stuff on the 10th inspection that you missed on the 9th inspection. That's just a reality of life. If you're a good inspector, you find all the big stuff the first time around, but the little stuff will keep popping up for as long as you keep looking.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Richard Moore]

Jim, it may not be likely but, just for the sake of this discussion, it is possible.

Everyone has valid points here and good opinions on this, even if they differ. You, especially, I have the utmost respect for and I know that whatever way you handle this I would and could find no fault with. Me, I tend to shy clear of potential cans of worms even if it turns out the cans are empty.

[Jerry Simon]

I buy a lottery ticket. Bill is next in line, and the clerk tells Bill it wouldn't be fair to Jerry to sell Bill, or anyone else for that matter, a ticket.

Simplistic, but that's how I look at it. Bill can buy a ticket, but like Katen said, just so the tickets ain't got the same numbers on them...

[mgbinspect]

Brandon,

I had to laugh when I read your comment.

It drives me nuts at re-inspections when you notice that no brainer piece of rotted wood at some location that, as you said "you'd have to be blind" to miss, yet for some reason isn't in you report, as you think to yourself in frustration "what the &8#2".

I hate those human moments [:-banghea And, that in spite of the fact that I won't interact with my clients very much, because I already figured out years ago that distraction is the mother of most errors and omissions - just at the instant you see something noteworthy, your client asks you to come see something, and your revelatiion never makes it to print...

[John Kogel]

It drives me nuts at re-inspections when you notice that no brainer piece of rotted wood at some location that, as you said "you'd have to be blind" to miss, yet for some reason isn't in you report, as you think to yourself in frustration "what the &8#2".

- just at the instant you see something noteworthy, your client asks you to come see something, and your revelatiion never makes it to print...

Yep, been there, too.

For the sake of one inspection fee, I would definitely pass on that second job. Even if the first client says he's backing out, people change their minds all the time. Give him a day or two to really be sure.

Client confidentiality is a joke if you go to work for the second buyer, even if you write a new report, you're using the same brain cells (I think?? [])

[Tom Raymond]

I'm curious how one could write two distinct and seperate reports on the same house. Checklists maybe, but custom narrative would really be tough. If I were to look at one property back to back I'm sure I could write one really good report. The rub as I see it would be that if both clients got the same report I would be doing a diservice to each of them, and if each client got unique reports what would be altered or left out to make them unique? In either case there is the potential to appear as though you have violated the SOP, COE or both and that apparent impropriety would likely compound your headaches in the event of a law suit.

I work pretty hard to do a good inspection and I'm not particularly afraid of being sued, but there just seems to be too much liability in this scenario. I hope I'm not particularly hungry if and when this ever happens to me.

Tom

[Jim Katen]

I'm curious how one could write two distinct and seperate reports on the same house. Checklists maybe, but custom narrative would really be tough.

I'd think it would be the other way 'round. Wouldn't a checklist report, by necessity, have to be identical? On the other hand, a custom narrative report is, well, custom. Show me a defect and I can write it up 10 different ways for you and of them would be equally valid ways to report the issue.

If I were to look at one property back to back I'm sure I could write one really good report. The rub as I see it would be that if both clients got the same report I would be doing a diservice to each of them,

Why? I don't see that at all.

and if each client got unique reports what would be altered or left out to make them unique? In either case there is the potential to appear as though you have violated the SOP, COE or both and that apparent impropriety would likely compound your headaches in the event of a law suit.

If you perform a new inspection and a new rerport for each customer, in exactly what way would you have violated the SOP or COE. Which sections in particular?

I work pretty hard to do a good inspection and I'm not particularly afraid of being sued, but there just seems to be too much liability in this scenario. I hope I'm not particularly hungry if and when this ever happens to me.

But where would the liability come from? As I see it, the liability is no greater than with any other inspection.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Bain]

Brandon,

I had to laugh when I read your comment.

It drives me nuts at re-inspections when you notice that no brainer piece of rotted wood at some location that, as you said "you'd have to be blind" to miss, yet for some reason isn't in you report, as you think to yourself in frustration "what the &8#2".

I hate those human moments [:-banghea And, that in spite of the fact that I won't interact with my clients very much, because I already figured out years ago that distraction is the mother of most errors and omissions - just at the instant you see something noteworthy, your client asks you to come see something, and your revelatiion never makes it to print...

It happens to us all, Michael, and ultimately probably makes us better. I remember a garage I must have passed through seven or eight times while I was checking out a house. It was only during the walkthrough with the client that I realized there was an HVAC register in the garage ceiling.

[Tom Raymond]

I'm curious how one could write two distinct and seperate reports on the same house. Checklists maybe, but custom narrative would really be tough.

I'd think it would be the other way 'round. Wouldn't a checklist report, by necessity, have to be identical? On the other hand, a custom narrative report is, well, custom. Show me a defect and I can write it up 10 different ways for you and of them would be equally valid ways to report the issue.

Well, I would think that I would find more minutia on the second go round and that more of that would make it into a checklist report. My narrative is completely custom so I could write two different reports but I have never done more than one inspection in a day, and I foresee issues keeping two houses distinct from one another as I write let alone two looks at the same place. I'm sure this will get easier with experience.

If I were to look at one property back to back I'm sure I could write one really good report. The rub as I see it would be that if both clients got the same report I would be doing a diservice to each of them,

Why? I don't see that at all.

For one it could be viewed as a violation of the NY COE, and it would violate the confidentiality terms of my own agreement

and if each client got unique reports what would be altered or left out to make them unique? In either case there is the potential to appear as though you have violated the SOP, COE or both and that apparent impropriety would likely compound your headaches in the event of a law suit.

If you perform a new inspection and a new rerport for each customer, in exactly what way would you have violated the SOP or COE. Which sections in particular?

I'll admit including the SOP was a bit of a knee jerk reaction, but there are several sections of the COE that could apply:

Section 197-4.1 Introduction

1. It is essential that home inspectors exhibit the highest standards of honesty and integrity in furtherance of the honor of the home inspection profession. A thorough home inspection has a direct and vital impact on the quality of life for all home buyers. Accordingly, home inspectors shall provide home inspection services in an honest, impartial and fair manner and shall strive at all times to protect, preserve and further the health, safety and welfare of the public. In performing home inspection services, home inspectors shall adhere to the highest principles of ethical conduct.

or

Section 197-4.3 Ethical Rules of Practice

3. Non-Disclosure

(a) Home inspectors shall not disclose any facts, data or information pertaining to a home inspection report without the prior consent of the client or the client’s representative. If, however; immediate threats to the health or safety of an occupants or potential occupant are observed during the course of the inspection, the home inspector may disclose those findings without obtaining prior consent of the client or the client’s representative

I work pretty hard to do a good inspection and I'm not particularly afraid of being sued, but there just seems to be too much liability in this scenario. I hope I'm not particularly hungry if and when this ever happens to me.

But where would the liability come from? As I see it, the liability is no greater than with any other inspection.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

By meeting the ethical requirements of disclosing both inspections you have double your exposure, if one client sues, you gotta believe that their lawyer will call the other client. Those of us here that have concerns over this scenario really should run it by our own lawyers.

The whole argument may be moot as the NY standards have yet to be adopted, COE and SOP are both still draft proposals. Then there's the little tidbit that there are no purchase offers, if it isn't a real estate transaction than the HI law doesn't apply. I wouldn't want to hang my hat on either of those presumptions though. That's why I have a lawyer.

Tom