state CEU and E & O requirements

[John Dirks Jr]

Which states have CEU requirements as part of licensing.

Which states require that inspectors carry E & O insurance?

I don't expect a single post to answer the questions. If you are from a particular state that that requires either or both of these, and you have info, please post it.

[hausdok]

Hi,

Washington State requires 24 CEU's in each licensing period. The licensing period is a maximum of 2 years and renews on one's second birtday after the license is issued.

No requirement for E & O in Washington State.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[John Dirks Jr]

MIke, how does one determine what qualifies as a CEU?

[resqman]

Currently North Carolina requires 12 hours of CEU per year, 4 hrs state mandatory topic and 8 hrs elective. Cannot repeat same class within a 3 year period.

Law was changed couple months ago and the next 3 years the minimum level will be 16 hrs of which 4 are the mandatory training.

Educators submit their class for approval to the licensing board to be approved for CEU credit.

Currently there is no insurance requirement but must have $5000 in assets. 2010 you must either carry E&O or maintain $17,000 in assets and 1 million of general liability insurance.

The Home Builders Association teamed up with the North Carolina Realtors Association to draft changes to the home inspector laws. There are the two best funded and politically clout wielding lobbies in the state. They drafted what they thought would be good changes to the home inspector law and then asked if the Home Inspector associations would support the law. Negotiations were held and some changes were made that were more HI friendly but still not what most HI's would have preferred. The law passed a couple months ago. Some took effect immediately and other parts take effect 2010.

[charlieb]

MS requires 20 hrs CEU for each 2 yr renewal.

E & O and GL coverage of 250K.

All course work and instructors must be approved by the board. If the instructor or course work approved by NAHI or ASHI it is rubber stamped.

[hausdok]

MIke, how does one determine what qualifies as a CEU?

Anyone wishing their course to be approved by DOL for CEU's must submit the course to DOL following the published guidelines on DOL's home inspector website. Once it arrives at DOL, a staff member reviews it to ensure it meets the administrative aspects required and then it's forwarded to one of the board members for technical review. Once the board member approves it, it's approved for CEU credits. If the assigned board member doesn't approve it, the vendor is notified of the reason it was refused. The vendor then needs to make corrections and re-submit.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Phillip]

Alabama requires you to be a member of one of the associations/group that is on it approved list. so it could be 0 to 20 hours a year.

E & O and GL coverage of 250K.

[Mark P]

IL requires 12 CEU every 2 years. Courses have to be approved by the State and a proctored exam taken. No E&O requirement.

[inspector57]

Texas is 16 hours per year of approved course from an approved trainer. No units or equivalencies, just actual hours.

[John Dirks Jr]

I'll toss another question into the mix.

How many of you think that "state" mandated CEU's are a good idea?

[John Dirks Jr]

I'll toss another question or two into the mix.

How many of you think that "state" mandated CEU's are a good idea?

Maryland currently has none. Do you think it's a good idea to try and convince legislators to consider adopting state mandated CEU's?

[resqman]

How many of you think that "state" mandated CEU's are a good idea?

In concept, Yes. The state mandated 4 hr training for the last several years has been about report writing. The state feels that communications and report writing are the weakest areas as a whole for home inspectors. Really boring and dry class room material. The good side is the state is making an effort to explain what they want. As a result a Report Compliance Worksheet was developed so inspectors can reveiw their own reports to determine if they meet state requirements.

The elective class room instruction has been disappointing. The material offered has been too simplistic. Classes are typically 4 hours long but occasionaly 2 hr blocks. I learn more in 4 hours of forum reading than I do in 4 hours of classroom time.

But at least all home inspectors must at least review the basic material every year. Attendance to the class is not sufficient. They monitor the class and do not allow phone or computer usage during class time. No napping or talking. If you miss 10% of the class material, you do not get credit for the class. Common cost is $350 for the 12 hours. Most don't want to throw away the time or money so make a concerted effort to at least look attentive during the classes.

[Jim Katen]

How many of you think that "state" mandated CEU's are a good idea?

In concept, Yes. The state mandated 4 hr training for the last several years has been about report writing. The state feels that communications and report writing are the weakest areas as a whole for home inspectors. Really boring and dry class room material. The good side is the state is making an effort to explain what they want. As a result a Report Compliance Worksheet was developed so inspectors can reveiw their own reports to determine if they meet state requirements.

I shudder to think about what the state thinks makes for good report writing.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Tom Raymond]

NY requires 24 hours per 2 year license period, and those courses need to be approved by DOL. $500K of GL, but no E & O requirement.

CE is a good idea in my opinion, but the approved courses really should be designed by educators and not by other inspectors. At the very least they should be reviewed by educators before they go to DOL. I have attended some NYSERDA sponsored training that was excellent, but that program was aimed at architects and engineers and the CEUs for home inspectors were really an afterthought. The training run by the local HI school was another story; imagine sitting through a six hour powerpoint presentation delivered by a full time commercial plumber/ new part time inspector who has never heard of CSST and doesn't think that pex tubing has been around long enough to be trusted. I learned more about how the other inspectors in my area practice "CYA" and "Don't say the 'code' word" than I did about any plumbing issues. Interestingly, the HI school does a much better job of tracking credits than NYSERDA does, but that probably comes more from the CYA philosophy they teach rather than any concern for their students.

CE would be good for you as an inspector and for the credability of the industry but, be careful what you wish for...you just might get it.

Tom

[Chad Fabry]

The training run by the local HI school was another story; imagine sitting through a six hour powerpoint presentation delivered by a full time commercial plumber/ new part time inspector who has never heard of CSST and doesn't think that pex tubing has been around long enough to be trusted.

Why would you expect CE to be better than the licensing course?

In NY, part of the problem with CE is that the folks who approve or disapprove the program don't know squat about home inspections or building science. CE is a sea of misinformation, foolklore and war stories. Occasionally, one's intellect is rescued by a dinghy of fact but most many inspectors are drowned in bullshit, write bullshit and repeat bullshit.

[Scottpat]

TN requires 36 hours every two years when you renew your license. TN requires $250K minimum E&O and GL.

Yes, I think CE hours are important. The problem I have with many CE courses that have been approved are some of the online ones that allow a person to speed or fast forward through them.

Just for fun I took a free 4 hour online course that was approved for CE hours in my state. I finished the course in less than an hour and that included the quizzes in each section. Don't get me wrong I have noting against online courses, I would just like to see them made so that a person spends the approved amount of time going over the material and is not able to speed through them. And No, I did not include those hours when I renewed my license! []

[Tom Raymond]

Why would you expect CE to be better than the licensing course?

John asked a question, and I thought that I was answering it succinctly. I have attended CE that was better than my initial training, and CE that was far worse. I had a reasonable expectation of what I was getting into before I attended. If Dirks has the opportunity to get involved in shaping his State CE program, I was merely pointing out that he should push for quality over quantity.

As long as you've jumped in to this thread, who do I petition to have the other CEUs and certifications I am required to get approved for HI licensing? My ZBA position requires 4 hours of annual training administered by DOS (that is already approved for code inspectors), and beginning in April my day job will require lead hazard certification that is 8 hours every 5 years. Both programs are far more relevant than the "plumber's crack" program.

Tom

[Chad Fabry]

Hi Tom,

I was intimating that since the standards for the initial training are so lackluster that there certainly won't be any real standards for CE either.

Jodi Dilello @ the DOS Licensing division could put you in touch w/ whomever can decide if the course or courses you took will meet the CE "standards"

[Tom Raymond]

Thanks.

[John Dirks Jr]

Thanks for all the input everyone.

I hope they don't ever mandate E&O in Maryland.

I wouldn't mind state required CE if it was good quality. From the contributions of you members sharing experiences I can see it could go either way.

Do you think state mandated CE affects membership numbers in orgs like ASHI, NAHI, InterNACHI? If so, what is the effect?

[resqman]

Do you think state mandated CE affects membership numbers in orgs like ASHI, NAHI, InterNACHI? If so, what is the effect?

Only if the state accepts CEU from the various organizations.

NC does not accept CEU's unless taught in 2 or more hour sessions that are preapproved. 45 minutes or an hour at an assoication meeting helps the members be more knowledgeable but is worthless from state licensing viewpoint.

I would guess licensing has a large effect on org memberships. Roughly 1/4 to 1/3 of the NC inspectors belong to North Carolina Licensed Home Inspector Association. We get free membership in InterNACHI as a benefit.