York Modulating 98% 60,000 BTW High Efficiency Fur

[fisherman7]

can anyone tell me weather or not the York Modulating 98% 60,000 BTW High Efficiency Furnace is good and reliable.

and what makes it so.

Thank You.

[Jim Katen]

can anyone tell me weather or not the York Modulating 98% 60,000 BTW High Efficiency Furnace is good and reliable.

and what makes it so.

Thank You.

Sorry, I've never seen one in action. In general, I'm not a fan of York. In my experience, their other products, particularly their AC & heat pump line, seem trouble prone. I also really don't like the fact that they seem to cheap out on the finishes on their outdoor units.

If I were shopping for a new furnace and if I wanted to go with a true modulating unit (I would only spend the money if there were a rebate, by the way), then I'd look very hard at the Rheem/Ruud line. They were one of the earliest manufacturers to offer modulating technology and their controls (basically, the "software" behind the furnace), beat the pants off anyone else. Aside from one or two hiccups, Rheem & Ruud have made some of the most reliable equipment out there for the last 20 years or so.

Modulating furnaces are all about the thermostat & control circuits, so don't cheap out on the thermostat.

That said, any furnace installation is only as good as the guy who does it. Find the best installer. If you hire a goon, you might as well just keep warm by burning dollar bills in your fireplace.

- Jim in Oregon

P.S. I deleted your duplicate post on the other thread to keep all the replies to your question in one place.

[fisherman7]

Thank you very much for your reply, this has helped me out alot.

I will now research Rheem/Ruud.

If anyone else has had any direct experience with York modulating furnaces I would appreciate your posts for curiosity sake

[Brandon Whitmore]

Determining reliability may be difficult since it is a newer furnace. You may want to go to an HVAC forum and ask there. With most furnaces, reliability has a lot to do with the installer, but some do have their design flaws as well.

I'd be inclined to pay close attention to warranty details.

(POST MOVED)

I got curious and looked into this more. Lots of opinions out there. One thing to note- the York does not require a special thermostat.

[Jim Katen]

. . . I got curious and looked into this more. Lots of opinions out there. One thing to note- the York does not require a special thermostat.

Then how does the furnace know how much to modulate?

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Brandon Whitmore]

Then how does the furnace know how much to modulate?

It sounds like it has to do with the control board, but I can't find the site I read earlier.

See this thread: http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=126475

This from other sites:

it includes a modulating gas valve, a completly variable blower motor.. and variable gas venting motor. The York unlike the competition modulators.. has more than five gas valve positions.. in fact the York modulates from around 40% to 100% in 1% increments. that is total comfort control.. also take a look inside a York.. and compare it to the complexity of parts in a carrier.. and lastly... one for the homeowner and installer to consider for costs.. the York runs on a standard 4 wire thermostat... no need to install a complex and expensive thermostat to operate a modulating furnace that is actually just a 5 stage furnace. and finally..

http://www.upstatesystems.com/downloads ... e-2006.pdf

[Jim Katen]

Then how does the furnace know how much to modulate?

It sounds like it has to do with the control board, but I can't find the site I read earlier.

See this thread: http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=126475

This from other sites:

it includes a modulating gas valve, a completly variable blower motor.. and variable gas venting motor. The York unlike the competition modulators.. has more than five gas valve positions.. in fact the York modulates from around 40% to 100% in 1% increments. that is total comfort control.. also take a look inside a York.. and compare it to the complexity of parts in a carrier.. and lastly... one for the homeowner and installer to consider for costs.. the York runs on a standard 4 wire thermostat... no need to install a complex and expensive thermostat to operate a modulating furnace that is actually just a 5 stage furnace. and finally..

http://www.upstatesystems.com/downloads ... e-2006.pdf

Thanks for the links. From those sites and some others I found, it looks as if the York uses a secret algorithm to predict future demand based on past demand. That doesn't seem like the best way to control such an advanced furnace. In fact, it seems downright silly.

Furnaces are like clothing. Those of us who have regular, non-modulating furnaces have just one winter coat. When we get cold, we put it on, and when we're no longer cold, we take it off. Worse than that, most of us have furnaces that are like *oversized* winter coats. So we get really hot after only a few minutes. As a result, we're putting on our coats and taking them off again all day long. That's really inefficient and uncomfortable. Even a properly sized winter coat, that's just the right size to keep you warm on the coldest day of the year if you wear it all day, is going to be too warm for all of the other days.

Enter modulating furnaces. They're like magic winter coats that can change from a cardigan sweater to an Alaskan parka and, along the way, stop at several stages in between. Crisp fall day? My magic coat automatically becomes a windbreaker. Cold winter morning? It turns into a pea coat. Beautiful warm sunbreak at midday? It transforms into a light denim jacket. The idea is to match the warmth of the coat to the conditions at hand so that the coat keeps you just warm enough to counteract the conditions around you. If its working properly, you never need to take off the coat, it keeps you at just the right temperature throughout the winter.

Rheem & Ruud control their furnaces by looking at the conditions at any given time & reacting to them. For this, they need an expensive thermostat.

York does it by looking at what it did yesterday, and doing the same thing today. If you're not happy with what it does today, you tell it, and and it say, "Ok, I'll keep that in mind for tomorrow."

- Jim in Oregon

[Brandon Whitmore]

Yeah, but.....

They won awards

[:-monkeyd

http://www.prdomain.com/companies/J/Joh ... 767112.htm

[Jim Katen]

Yeah, but.....

They won awards

[:-monkeyd

http://www.prdomain.com/companies/J/Joh ... 767112.htm

So did the Lennox Pulse furnace.

- Jim in Oregon

[Tom Raymond]

So how do any of them really modulate? Wouldn't true modulation require an outdoor thermal reset to know which one of Jim's magic coat scenarios to run?

Tom

[Jim Katen]

So how do any of them really modulate? Wouldn't true modulation require an outdoor thermal reset to know which one of Jim's magic coat scenarios to run?

They modulate in slightly different ways depending on the brand. But all are able to actually vary the intensity of the gas flame, the speed of the draft inducer, and the speed of the blower. Some do it in distinct stages and some have continuously variable controls. I don't know if any of them use an outdoor thermostat, but it would seem to make sense.

Manufacturers have been making boilers with modulating aquastats for a long time -- I know that at least some of those systems rely on an outdoor thermostat.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[RobC]

The outdoor 'thermostat' is called a thermistor, it doesn't call for heat, its function is to give a temperature reading to the boiler.

It's not so much the aquastats that modulate the boiler but rather the signal it sends back to the boiler/board. The boiler processes the information and adjusts the gas valve accordingly.

I have two, one for boiler control and one back to the wall thermostat that displays the outdoor temperature only.