Illinois Inspectors: Your Law's Getting a Makeover

[hausdok]

On August 7th, some proposed rule changes to the Illinois Home Inspector License Act (68 Ill. Adm. Code1410) were published in the the 2009 Illinois Register (Rules of Government Agencies).

According to the preamble to the proposed changes:

"the proposed amendments are intended to further clarify various aspects of the original rules, including: Standards of Practice, Grounds for Discipline, Education Provider Application; Requirements, and Pre-License Course Curriculum. Section 1410.10 is amended by adding additional definitions pertaining to education. Section 1410.100 was made consistent with the operation for other agency professions and the Licensing Division relating to exam time frames being only 1 year to make application after examination. Section 1410.160 is amended to provide mandatory courses and elective courses for continuing education practices. Section 1410.200, Standards of Practice, is amended for clarification purposes regarding residential components of inspections. Section 1410.300 was amended for the safety of the general public by allowing a Licensee to share any crucial information stemming from a home inspection that may pose a danger. The amendments also include numerous non-substantive changes, including changing references throughout the entire Part from "OBRE" to "IDFPR" "OBRE" to "Division" and "Commissioner" to "Director" to reflect the consolidation of agencies into the Department of Financial and Professional Regulation and the creation of the Division of Professional Regulation.

To see the proposed changes, click here.

Interested parties have 45 days from publication to respond if they wish for their comments to be considered. Comments should be sent to:

Department of Financial and Professional Regulation

Attention: Craig Cellini

320 West Washington, 3rd Floor

Springfield, IL 62786

Phone: 217/785-0813 Fax: 217/557-4451

[fqp25]

2 business days instead of 48 hours to submit a report. In my young career I've spent a few Sundays working, and felt very rushed to submit a report.

Frank

[mthomas1]

One thing I have always wanted to see clarified: "describe in detail", as for example:

"the home inspector shall describe in detail the interior water supply and

distribution systems, including all fixtures and faucets..."

Is there anyone here who is actually describing "all faucets in detail"?

It's a absurd requirement - but as long as it's in the SOP, any of us could be disciplined for failure to do so.

[Jerry Simon]

One thing I have always wanted to see clarified: "describe in detail", as for example:

"the home inspector shall describe in detail the interior water supply and

distribution systems, including all fixtures and faucets..."

I don't worry about such minutia.

Is there anyone here who is actually describing "all faucets in detail"?

It's a absurd requirement - but as long as it's in the SOP, any of us could be disciplined for failure to do so.

Like that would ever friggin' happen.

I'm thinking someone would be disciplined for negligence...gross negligence - not for calling a fixed faucet spout a swivel spout (I can just imagine the *complaint* letter about that). Maybe I'm wrong, though. It is Illinois, after all. Perhaps the rolls are filled with fines and penalties for improperly using colons instead of proper semi-colons in HI reports.

We ain't talking about a lawsuit here, where an attorney has the opportunity to pick apart a report. What's the chance the State of IL will subpoena a report of mine solely to see if I properly described a faucet? Again, I don't worry about such minutia.

[kurt]

I've never described all faucets in detail, and don't plan on starting.

No one else does either.

[Bill Kibbel]

I'm rather shocked to find inspectors in Illinois choose to not include such critically important details about a home.

"At the master bathroom sink, there is a 12" widespread faucet assembly, with a swing gooseneck spout, lever handles and a pop-up drain. It is constructed of solid brass with a lacquered antique finish. It includes a quick connect hose assembly and a ceramic disk valve".

[fqp25]

I'm rather shocked to find inspectors in Illinois choose to not include such critically important details about a home.

"At the master bathroom sink, there is a 12" widespread faucet assembly, with a swing gooseneck spout, lever handles and a pop-up drain. It is constructed of solid brass with a lacquered antique finish. It includes a quick connect hose assembly and a ceramic disk valve".

Your right. We need to bing faucet wrenches with us so we can locate the serial number to age them. [:-drunk]

I see they're proposing that pre-license courses include 5 field inspections, or I should say 5 field inspection events.

Frank

[kurt]

Our licensing is testimony to what happens when a profession is held in the tight grip of it's least competent practitioners.

Stupid extraneous stuff happens.

Very similarly to ASHI, NAHI, or any of the professional societies.

[mthomas1]

A quick first draft:

----------------

Department of Financial and Professional Regulation

Attention: Craig Cellini

320 West Washington, 3rd Floor

Springfield, IL 62786

Dear Mr. Cellini

As an inspector who makes a good faith effort to abide by the Ilinois reporting requirements (and I know, based on reading reports by others, that I come much closer than many) I have always been extremely frustrated by the vague nature of the various requirements to “describeâ€

[hausdok]

I'm rather shocked to find inspectors in Illinois choose to not include such critically important details about a home.

"At the master bathroom sink, there is a 12" widespread faucet assembly, with a swing gooseneck spout, lever handles and a pop-up drain. It is constructed of solid brass with a lacquered antique finish. It includes a quick connect hose assembly and a ceramic disk valve".

Hmm,

Bill, something in my gut tells me you meant that sardonically.

I agree, I think that requiring that kind of specificity is more than a little goofy. When we worked on the SOP here in Washington State, we had to deal with the same question of what was enough to ensure that the inspector has produced a record that is good enough to protect the consumer, as well as provide the inspector sufficient information such that the inspector can, if necessary, form a pretty good mental picture of the home and the home's systems in court years later.

We all pretty much agreed that knowing the type of material that the supply and waste systems were plumbed with was more important than stuff like faucets and fixtures because faucets and fixtures get changed and replaced easily whereas an entire plumbing system is not so easily replaced. All we require is "The inspector will describe the visible water supply and distribution piping materials; drain, waste and vent materials; water-heating equipment."

We left it up to the inspector how he or she describes it. If an inspector is so anal that the inspector wants to describe every single fixture and faucet in detail, so be it, but all that's required is to describe the piping materials and the water heating equipment.

OT - OF!!!

M.

[Tom Raymond]

A quick first draft:

----------------

Department of Financial and Professional Regulation

Attention: Craig Cellini

320 West Washington, 3rd Floor

Springfield, IL 62786

Dear Mr. Cellini

As an inspector who makes a good faith effort to abide by the Ilinois reporting requirements (and I know, based on reading reports by others, that I come much closer than many) I have always been extremely frustrated by the vague nature of the various requirements to “describe?and “describe in detail?

To take one example:

“describe in detail the interior water supply and distribution systems, including all fixtures and faucets..."

Consider what would be involved in meeting the letter of this requirement:

1) To describe all fixtures and faucets in detail, you would first have to list them: i.e. “at the subject property there are 7 faucets, 5 in bathrooms, 1 in the kitchen, and 1 at the laundry tub? (Alternately, one could describe them by room, “in the second floor hall bath there are 3 faucets, one at each vanity and one at the tub/shower).

This, of course, is a pointless exercise, and one that if followed actually reduces the effectiveness and accuracy of the inspection to the extent that time is spent on this effort instead of on locating and reporting defects.

2) But it gets worse: inspectors are required to describe "all faucets" “in detail?

If we abide by the letter of the regulations we are clearly prohibited from restricting our detailed description to defective facets - we are specifically required to describe in detail all facets, defective or not.

So at this point, to comply with the SOP, the inspector is required to guess what details the state might be requiring us to report for every faucet, defective or otherwise:

Manufacturer? Single or double handle? Finish?

All of the above?

None of the above, and something else instead?

Note that none of these “details?are meaningful in terms of functionality, and that reporting them is not only useless to clients but annoys them (and makes them less likely to read the rest of the report carefully).

Never the less, the SOP is clearly requiring us to report some level of such detail... we are just required to guess what details those might be!

Faced with this difficulty what actually happens is that inspectors throw up their hands in disgust and frustration, restrict themselves to describing defective faucets and the reason why they're defective, and take their chances with being out of compliance because it's impossible to determine how to be in compliance - I doubt you could find a single report out of the tens of thousands written in Illinois since the existing SOP came into effect that even makes an attempt to fully meet the letter of that requirement.

Now, multiply this by the number of such requirements in the SOP - for reporting foundations, structure, roofing and electrical components in addition to plumbing - and what you have is massive noncompliance with the SOP, because compliance is virtually impossible.

In the case of faucets this really doesn't much matter - I've never encountered a client who cares about the manufacturer, handle configuration or color of finish on a faucet - they just want to be alerted when a faucet does not function properly.

Where such vague requirements become a real problem for everyone involved is when reporting the descriptions of systems with significant safety or cost implications, these are the cases where compliance with reporting standards can make a big difference, especially if you end up in court.

Note however even in such cases what is important to clients are not general construction features but defects; the client does not particularly care if the rafters 2x4?or 2â€

[kurt]

Better yet, don't send it.

If you're compelled to write a letter, send them a simple one, and ask them how they'd have us describe the faucets in detail.

[Bill Kibbel]

I'm rather shocked to find inspectors in Illinois choose to not include such critically important details about a home.

"At the master bathroom sink, there is a 12" widespread faucet assembly, with a swing gooseneck spout, lever handles and a pop-up drain. It is constructed of solid brass with a lacquered antique finish. It includes a quick connect hose assembly and a ceramic disk valve".

Bill, something in my gut tells me you meant that sardonically.

The sarcasm smiley didn't show up in my post.

[Jim Katen]

Better yet, don't send it.

If you're compelled to write a letter, send them a simple one, and ask them how they'd have us describe the faucets in detail.

Really. If you scream loud enough and long enough, people stop listening.

I'm amazed that more people don't understand this very basic fact of human communication.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Mike Lamb]

I'm rather shocked to find inspectors in Illinois choose to not include such critically important details about a home.

"At the master bathroom sink, there is a 12" widespread faucet assembly, with a swing gooseneck spout, lever handles and a pop-up drain. It is constructed of solid brass with a lacquered antique finish. It includes a quick connect hose assembly and a ceramic disk valve".

Bill, something in my gut tells me you meant that sardonically.

The sarcasm smiley didn't show up in my post.

I saw the smiley face.

[mthomas1]

> Or, send it anonymously. It's a very angry letter...

Dude, that's me being laid back and polite in the presence of bureaucratic incompetent and idiocy, THIS is me set to "angry" in the presence of bureaucratic incompetent and idiocy.

I've got another one around here where I'm set to "outraged", but I can't post that one as the matter is in court, where the perpetrator of that piece of bureaucratic idiocy and incompetence is in the process of getting their 'nads presented to them on a plate garnished with facts, likely at considerable expense to said bureaucracy.

And yes, if it's sent it will be much improved, that's what "quick first draft" is about.

[Tom Raymond]

I don't like angry letters, they tend not to elicit the response I'm after. For example, I once wrote a 200 word letter to an architect that calmly and politely explained just how stupid and incompetent she was (without using either word). Within a few days I received a very nice response, thanking me for taking the time to respond in such detail and complimenting me for being so thorough and thoughtful. There is something to be said for civility; I still got to vent, she got the message, and her ego was unbruised enough to thank me for it.

Tom

[Jerry Simon]

August 24, 2009

Mr. Craig Cellini

Dept. of Financial & Professional Regulation

320 W. Washington, 3rd Floor

Springfield, IL 62786

Dear Mr. Cellini:

With regards to the proposed amendments for the home inspector licensing,

Section 1410.330, line C, reads in part: “If any dangerous situations exist, the home inspector is required to report those findings to the home owner.â€