Footing and Foundation Forms

[kurt]

In all this rambling, the question still remains, Is the gasket necessary and is it in the optimum location?

I think your approach is a systems approach, in that there are multiple efforts to restrict or stop moisture migration.

The rubber is just another chink in the overall system approach. I think that's where it should go.

I'm much more interested damproofing and capillary break techniques, as that's addressing the source instead of the symptom (water in the cold joint).

In my perfect world, I'd backfill in lifts, alternating in sloped dumps of stone against the foundation, then dirt sloping the other eay, followed by stone, etc., until you have a "wall of stone" providing an air space outside the foundation wall.

Stone under the slab almost goes without saying, and it's amazing how many times I see slabs without stone........

[Jim Katen]

. . . In my perfect world, I'd backfill in lifts, alternating in sloped dumps of stone against the foundation, then dirt sloping the other eay, followed by stone, etc., until you have a "wall of stone" providing an air space outside the foundation wall. . . .

I did something like that once. After the walls were cast, I attached little 6-inch-long 2x2 stand-offs to the plywood formboards. Each 4x8 sheet got 15 stand-offs so that, once attached, each sheet looked like a little coffee table. Then we stood them up against the foundation walls with the stand-offs against the damp-proofed concrete. We backfilled soil against the plywood side up to grade, then backfilled the stand-off side up to grade as well. My plan was to yank the plywood out with a backhoe, but by the time I got around to it, the backhoe was gone. So I used the PTO from a tractor to get them about halfway out and a come-along for the final bit. They slipped right out of the ground.

Miradrain would have been a lot easier, but it was very expensive and, in those days, I had lots of time but little money.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[kurt]

Kinda like yanking the tablecloth out from under the china, eh? Sounds like it would work perfectly.

Doing it in lifts takes so much time, Miradrain starts looking cheap and easy.

[Jim Katen]

Kinda like yanking the tablecloth out from under the china, eh? Sounds like it would work perfectly.

Doing it in lifts takes so much time, Miradrain starts looking cheap and easy.

Depends on whether you have more time or more money.

When I was visiting Mexico a few years ago, I was fascinated by some of the extremely labor-intensive building techniques that I saw being used. At one point, I had the good fortune to meet up with Jimmy Morrison & Charlie Wood down there & they explained that the labor-intensive techniques were simply the product of having lots of really cheap labor but not lots of ready cash. It's cheaper to hire two guys with hammers & chisels than it is to rent a jackhammer for an afternoon.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[RobC]

In all this rambling, the question still remains, Is the gasket necessary and is it in the optimum location?

I think your approach is a systems approach, in that there are multiple efforts to restrict or stop moisture migration.

The rubber is just another chink in the overall system approach. I think that's where it should go.

I'm much more interested damproofing and capillary break techniques, as that's addressing the source instead of the symptom (water in the cold joint).

In my perfect world, I'd backfill in lifts, alternating in sloped dumps of stone against the foundation, then dirt sloping the other eay, followed by stone, etc., until you have a "wall of stone" providing an air space outside the foundation wall.

Stone under the slab almost goes without saying, and it's amazing how many times I see slabs without stone........

The washed aggregates will also have the added benefit or reducing hydraulic pressure on the wall. But as we all know that eventually fills up with silt and fails over time as with the perimeter drain line.

Even though I've opted for a 'socked' line I expect it to fail but maybe over a longer period.

Regardless, I've solved the pressure issue with the use of re bar. I'm thinking I have close to a mile of #4 in the walls. Let's just say that I've never hesitated parking an 8,000# skid steer adjacent to it.

"labor-intensive techniques were simply the product of having lots of really cheap labor but not lots of ready cash."

Sounds like my job site......[]

[kurt]

When I was visiting Mexico a few years ago, I was fascinated by some of the extremely labor-intensive building techniques that I saw being used. At one point, I had the good fortune to meet up with Jimmy Morrison & Charlie Wood down there & they explained that the labor-intensive techniques were simply the product of having lots of really cheap labor but not lots of ready cash. It's cheaper to hire two guys with hammers & chisels than it is to rent a jackhammer for an afternoon.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

It was that way in the islands when I was working there a long time ago. There was an islander that built himself a 1200' house from drystacked and fit black beach stone because getting portland cement was hard and expensive, and there wasn't any decent sand nearby (it's all stone on his side of the island). He'd chip and hammer the stuff into a relatively flat shape, then stack 'em up with bond courses every couple feet.

I watched him for a year get the 4 walls up about 5'; it took him another couple years to get up to where he could frame the roof with some timbers he'd salvaged.

It was like those fences they build out east. Thing'll probably be there forever.

It was a real nice little house.

[Jim Katen]

. . . It was that way in the islands when I was working there a long time ago. There was an islander that built himself a 1200' house from drystacked and fit black beach stone because getting portland cement was hard and expensive, and there wasn't any decent sand nearby (it's all stone on his side of the island). He'd chip and hammer the stuff into a relatively flat shape, then stack 'em up with bond courses every couple feet.

I watched him for a year get the 4 walls up about 5'; it took him another couple years to get up to where he could frame the roof with some timbers he'd salvaged.

It was like those fences they build out east. Thing'll probably be there forever.

It was a real nice little house.

Years ago, my neighbor across the street decided he wanted a basement. At the time, he was 76 years old, retired, and couldn't sit still. He & his wife didn't particularly care for each other, so he spent a lot of time outside and in his shop. He started digging his basement with a shovel and a 5-gallon bucket. He'd fill the bucket with dirt and scatter it around his yard one bucket at at time until he got tired each day. In 6 months the excavation was complete, and in 9 months the basement was done.

Then he started in on his hand-dug well. He used a posthole digger (the spiral kind). When the hole got deep enough that his knuckles hit the ground, he added a length of pipe to the end and kept going, adding lengths of pipe & couplings as the hole got deeper. At 75 feet, he hit rock. His plan was to blast his way through the rock with a 1/4 stick of dynamite but his wife got wind of it and told the sheriff what he was up to. That put a stop to the well (for all I know, the hole is still there, covered with a coffee can).

Then he started on his water wheel. He built it out of scraps from discarded pallets and diverted the drainage slough from our street to power it. He connected the wheel, via a system of pulleys, to an old motor that he salvaged from God knows where and created a generator that, when the slough was really flowing well, could light up a 60-watt light bulb.

A little perseverance is a remarkable thing.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Garet]

... the labor-intensive techniques were simply the product of having lots of really cheap labor but not lots of ready cash. It's cheaper to hire two guys with hammers & chisels than it is to rent a jackhammer for an afternoon.

Back in my engineering days, I spent 5 months in Indonesia, and gradually became accustomed to this mentality as the rule of construction in the big cities. Then I took a trip to a remote construction site in the hills, and watched as a small army of small men used hammers and chisel to turn a field full of boulders into a large pile of gravel. Oyyyyy!