PVC trap enclosed in concrete

[randynavarro]

Anybody have the chapter and verse if this allowed or not?

I'm looking, but I figured the bretheren may have a faster answer.

I know, I know, I'm lazy but at least I'm lookin. . .

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[randynavarro]

For those interested, I found it.

IRC P2603.3

I've got my IRC on two different computers so I can't copy/paste easily on to this post.

"Pipes pasing through concrete. . . shall be protected against external corrosion by a protective sheathing or wrapping or other means that will withstand any reacation from lime and acid of concrete, cinder or other corrosive material."

[inspector57]

I don't have chapter and verse, but a slip joint trap has to be accessible for service... right?

[Brandon Whitmore]

I agree with Jim, but don't have the code cite. Also, corrosion will of course be a non- issue with plastic.

[randynavarro]

2000 UPC

313.2 "No piping shall be directly embedded in concrete or maonsry."

[KGarten]

The slip joint waste and overflow looks like it has the bottom slip nut connection buried in the concrete, which is not allowed. (IPC 405.

The plastic passing through the concrete is a different issue. Some municipalities around here (D/FW area) require it to be wrapped in 5 mil plastic. In my experience I have not seen a piece of PVC or ABS that has reacted with concrete in any meaningful way, so I would consider that a minor point (if not irrelevant). The code commentary for IPC section 305.1 specifically mentions brass, copper, cast iron and steel as the only materials that are required to be protected from corrosion.

And make sure of the code the area uses. IRC (and IPC) versus UPC are very different in many important details (venting especially).

[randynavarro]

And make sure of the code the area uses. IRC (and IPC) versus UPC are very different in many important details (venting especially).

Yes, I don't have any IPC resources in my library.

I'm not up to speed on the plastic-concrete contact issue. Brandon mentioned it wouldn't be an issue - no bad stuff in the concrete to attack the plastic.

It makes perfect sense to sleeve the piping, though. Movement / shrinkage of the concrete can wreak some havoc on pipes. Additionally, if a pipe is trapped in the concrete, the pipe's expansion and contraction can cause damage (to the pipe itself.)

Someone can set me straight if these reasons aren't why sleeving or isolation the pipe is required.

[Chad Fabry]

I'm not up to speed on the plastic-concrete contact issue. Brandon mentioned it wouldn't be an issue - no bad stuff in the concrete to attack the plastic.

It's not an issue. I still like to see things sleeved because the house and the fill around the house don't always move at the same rate. A sleeve allows a little slip and helps prevent kinks or shears.

[Terence McCann]

I believe that the sleeving of pipe applies to black pipe (gas line) going through concrete/mortar. It will corrode the pipe. Plastic is impervious to this.

[Darren]

Standard Plumbing code

2.12 Sleeves- All piping passing through concrete walls, floor, slabs and masonry walls shall be provided with sleeves for protection.

Exception- If it's a drilled or bored hole.

[KGarten]

Out of curiosity, I would like to ask how many people here have seen a pipe embedded in concrete that has been broken by foundational movement? I'm not counting when a foundation has been repaired and the repair caused residual breakage.

I've seen breaks from foundation fixes, roots in the yard, settling under the house on horizontal cast iron pipe joints, copper water lines in contact with the concrete corroded away but never pvc breaking or even cracking because of settling issues. This being said, I know I haven't seen everything out there.[]

[Chad Fabry]

Out of curiosity, I would like to ask how many people here have seen a pipe embedded in concrete that has been broken by foundational movement? I'm not counting when a foundation has been repaired and the repair caused residual breakage.

I guess that's why I'm an advocate for sleeves. I've seen two copper water services kinked to the point where volume was an issue. Both passed through cmu walls and were grouted in place.