Bryant16e Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 Is it acceptible to cover flashing with roof shingles? Click to View 107.62 KB
energy star Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 I say yep. Nice roof job. The one shingle under the neck could have some sealer on it.
Bain Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 It's wrong. https://www.inspectorsjournal.com/forum ... IC_ID=6412
AHI in AR Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 I'd have to say you have a problem. I do see some black goo on the side of the housing, indicating an attempt to seal the edges, but any water that may make it past that would only get dammed up at the lower end. Eventually, some water will get in there and drain down. With a bottom shingle impeding the exit of that water, it would likely move laterally and find its way through the roof decking.
Bryant16e Posted January 16, 2009 Author Report Posted January 16, 2009 I did notice that all the homes in the area was exactly the same if that helps. So its 2 to 1 aganist..........
kurt Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 The bottom flange on that vent should be on top of the shingles below it. Was this a new roof, or a reroof?
Bryant16e Posted January 16, 2009 Author Report Posted January 16, 2009 It is practly brand new 2 years old..... all penatrations are as such.
AHI in AR Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 Originally posted by Bryant16e I did notice that all the homes in the area was exactly the same if that helps. So its 2 to 1 aganist.......... We all know that "all" the homes being done that way means nothing. After it all, it could have been the same poorly trained roofer who did all of them. As I see it, the bottom line is that a properly done metal flashing will work well for a VERY long time. It may even outlast the shingles. On the other hand, a flashing dependent on tar goo to seal it will need work every few years.
Chad Fabry Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 The bottom flange on that vent should be on top of the shingles below it. Was this a new roof, or a reroof? I have no issue covering the apron of the flashing as long as the flashing is over the course below. The tab should NOT be glued to the flashing.
Brandon Whitmore Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 With that installation, put me on the side of "completely wrong". Now, if that flashing runs all the way to the bottom edge of the shingle below, it would not be bad....but I don't think it does.
Bryant16e Posted January 16, 2009 Author Report Posted January 16, 2009 It seems we have a real debate going on.
Brandon Whitmore Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 The problems with that installation: 1) If that flashing does not extend quite to the bottom edge of the overlaying shingle, there is inadequate head lap. 2)Water will be able to wick horizontally and seep in at any butt joints or nail heads (some nails may be blown through making it more of an issue). 3)Shingles are installed too tightly against the vent, so debris will build up and moss will grow around it (asking for problems). 4)I can't think of any others off the top of my head.....
Bryant16e Posted January 16, 2009 Author Report Posted January 16, 2009 This site is a God send, all you guys are great. Thanks for all your comments.
caryseidner Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 Is the shingle at the low side of the vent part of the shingle course, or is it just a cut piece of shingle that was applied over the metal base flashing of the vent? I can't quite tell from the photo. If it's part of the shingle course, it's wrong and a leaker. If it's applied over the base flashing strictly for cosmetics, I would say it's okay but kinda stupid. Even if its fully bonded to the metal base flashing and water could get trapped between the applied shingle and the base flashing, I can't see how water could get into the house.
kurt Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 Originally posted by Chad FabryI have no issue covering the apron of the flashing as long as the flashing is over the course below. The tab should NOT be glued to the flashing. Agreed. I didn't say mine very well.
Chris Bernhardt Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 I'm with Chad Fabry. I see it occasionally here in my neck of the woods. As long as things are shingling at least half way down, I'm fine with it. There is no such thing as the perfect roof. There are always nailing errors or rather errors of some nature. There's no reason to get hyper over this specific example of roofing over a roof vent in my opinion. Chris, Oregon
SWagar Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 When I see unusual roofing details such as this one, I ask myself can the water get out? Does any water that lands on / gets to the horizontal part of the shingle at the base of the metal flashing get to daylight or does it run under the lower shingle? One might have to lift the lower shingle and take a peak. If you saw shingle then it is a leaker, metal flashing and it is probably OK. IMO goop should never be used in place of good roofing technique. Good technique lasts a goodly amount of time goop doesn't.
Jeff Remas Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 It all depends on how it was layered where we can't see from a picture. That will determine the answer. This can be a perfectly acceptable installation.
Chad Fabry Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 Think step flashings. You can't see them when they're properly installed and it's prudent to lay a vertical bead of butyl to bed the the shingle. Closed cut valleys call for black goop. If the black goop is insurance and not primary water shedding, it's useful. I routinely bed vent flashings in butyl; is that wrong? In this case, the exposed bottom apron of the vent flashing would have a nearly a full shingle course of exposure, it'd be quite unsightly. As long as it's shingled into the assembly in the correct order and no nails penetrate the apron, it's not an issue. Water never runs below the primary cover which is, in this area, the vent flashing.
Home Pride Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 It's extremely common around this part of Florida to cover the exposed lower section of flashing with the new shingles. It is applied as a decorative covering only, held down with roof cement. The flashing itself is lapped over the lower course, but is not visible unless you look for it. All roof penetrations are embedded in cement during installation as well as being flashed as necessary. I rarely see any issues with this method, as long as it is applied for decorative purposes only. Dom.
Home Pride Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 Originally posted by SonOfSwamp Just curious: Do any of the folks who approve of this installation own a SMACNA manual? Ever thumbed through a SMACNA manual? WJ With all due respect: Just curious, How is the Sheet Metal & HVAC duct industry prepared to address the issues with roof penetrations, roof coverings, and roof flashing details?
Brandon Whitmore Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 Think step flashings. You can't see them when they're properly installed and it's prudent to lay a vertical bead of butyl to bed the the shingle. Closed cut valleys call for black goop. If the black goop is insurance and not primary water shedding, it's useful. If that apron flashing runs all the way to the lower edge of the next course down, it would work (I still don't like it). Same goes for step flashing. I write up step flashing all the time that doesn't run down far enough. Just looking at this vent, I doubt the flashing runs down as far as it should. I agree that vertical goop is good, and horizontal not so good. I routinely bed vent flashings in butyl; is that wrong? quote] I know at least one manufacturer that requires ice/ water shield at these locations (Certainteed), at least last time I read their instructions. In this case, the exposed bottom apron of the vent flashing would have a nearly a full shingle course of exposure, it'd be quite unsightly. Hopefully, it would have a full course of exposure. Most of the vents I see like that only would have about a third to a half course of exposure. (my concern) It could always be painted and/ or some aggregate added to make it look good. I believe there are pre- finished flashings out there that match shingles as well. Maybe not for this application. As long as it's shingled into the assembly in the correct order That's my concern. Almost every time I see this type of installation, it does not lap down far enough. and no nails penetrate the apron, it's not an issue. Water never runs below the primary cover which is, in this area, the vent flashing.[/ Let's hope the apron is the primary cover....you never know. I often see nails penetrate the apron, or nails just below the apron exposed to all of the moisture. Just curious, can anyone show a set of installation instructions from a credible source that shows flashing run in below a course of shingles? Chad, Just so you know, I am not arguing with any of your post. I'm pretty positive that if you did the roof, I wouldn't be able to pick on it. My job canceled today, so I have way too much time on my hands.
hausdok Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 The Certainteed Master Shingle Applicator's manual shows covering the flashing at a sidewall where it overlaps a shed roof by using some mastic to adhere a trimmed course of shingles to conceal the flashings. The very next page shows a vent application and says that the lower apron of the installed flashing should be exposed below the vent where it rests on top of the shingles below. I've blown that photo up as far as I could get it to go and still have decent resolution and have studied it at length. It looks to me like it's completely underneath all of the shingles around it's entire perimeter with a layer of goop sealing it on all sides. I'd call it. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike
Chad Fabry Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 Chad, Just so you know, I am not arguing with any of your post. I'm pretty positive that if you did the roof, I wouldn't be able to pick on it. My job canceled today, so I have way too much time on my hands. Brandon, Argue with me. I'm wrong all the time. I love don't hate too much being wrong because the result is one less thing to be wrong about in the future. I have a pretty strong feeling I'm not going to find anything to support my opinion in this thread and anecdotal evidence in a court room is the same thing as no evidence. I'm still looking though, I'll get back in a day or two.
Richard Moore Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 Originally posted by hausdok I've blown that photo up as far as I could get it to go and still have decent resolution and have studied it at length. It looks to me like it's completely underneath all of the shingles around it's entire perimeter with a layer of goop sealing it on all sides. I'd call it. With the applied layers of the "architectural" shingle it's tough to be sure what's going on underneath. But therein lies a problem. The apron might well be over the lower layer but, if I can't actually determine that, am I allowed to guess and say it's OK? (I'm still not convinced it would be OK. I like to see the aprons and the water kept on top of all roofing.) I know we have to take some hidden things for granted with roofs but when something is already on the, ummm, odd side it needs closer scrutiny. In this case it seems unlikely I would be able to come up with a definitive answer, and therefore I would punt and call it. Eric also mentioned that ALL penetrations were done this way. That sounds like someone who just doesn't know what they're doing rather than an attempt to beautify this particular vent. Bonus question: Would a 2-year old home typically have a separate warranty for the roofing?
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