Apollo HydroHeat -- known problems?

[Jim Katen]

I suggest that you double down on your calling. There have got to be several companies in the greater Chicago area that service Apollo systems.

Don't refer to it as hydronic - that generally means a hot water boiler that pumps water to radiators in the house. Just tell them that it's an Apollo Hydroheat system.

You will find someone to work on it. In another thread, Scott Patterson suggested calling State Water Heaters (they still make these systems) and asking them to refer you to someone who works on them in your area.

If the water heater is new and nothing's leaking you don't need a new system. Rattling could mean that you need a new pump, a new blower, or blower mount, or maybe you just need to have a mounting block tightened.

[Marc]

...You will find someone to work on it. In another thread, Scott Patterson suggested calling State Water Heaters (they still make these systems) and asking them to refer you to someone who works on them in your area...

I think it's AO Smith now that makes Apollo Hydroheat systems. They bought out State in 2001. Scott's phone number for them might still work though.

Press Release

The 1.5 million-square-foot Ashland City facility, the world's largest water heater manufacturing plant, currently manufacturesState and Reliance brand water heaters as well as a number of private-brand models and Apollo HydroHeat and cooling systems. The plant, which opened in 1961, was part of A. O. Smith's acquisition of State Industries in December 2001. - See more at: http://www.hotwater.com/about-us/press- ... uMZRG.dpuf

Marc

[Joe McLaughlin]

I bought my home in Vancouver WA in 2001 and it has an Apollo heating system. When I moved in I replaced the Apollo hot water heater with a Bradford White. After about ten years the Bradford White started leaking and I replaced it again. I have two heat exchange units. One on the first floor under the stairs and the second in the 2nd floor attic. The blower motor failed in 2015 on the s1st floor unit and I had the motor replaced. This week that capacitor failed on the 1st floor unit and I replaced it.

The heating system has always heated my home well and the cost in my natural gas bill is reasonable to me. To date I have had no problems with leaks.

All the homes in my neighborhood are the same and some have had problems. Next door the second floor unit sprang a small leak spraying water in the attic that was not noticed until the walls started turning green. It was a costly repair for my neighbor.

I do not see a need to retrofit at this time for my home. I would like to install some water leak ropes that will notify me of any leaks. Also, I would like to get my hands on a spare blower motor fan assembly just in case I need one in the winter.

Personally I think the Apollo heating system has been great for my home and family.

[Marc]

It's my suggestion that you always replace the run capacitor when you change a fan/blower motor. Look at the label on the box or on the nameplate of the replacement motor for which capacitor specs to get. Capacitors are cheap and capacitor/voltage specs are not necessarily the same different make/model motors that are all suitable replacements for a given motor.

Marc

I bought my home in Vancouver WA in 2001 and it has an Apollo heating system. When I moved in I replaced the Apollo hot water heater with a Bradford White. After about ten years the Bradford White started leaking and I replaced it again. I have two heat exchange units. One on the first floor under the stairs and the second in the 2nd floor attic. The blower motor failed in 2015 on the s1st floor unit and I had the motor replaced. This week that capacitor failed on the 1st floor unit and I replaced it.

The heating system has always heated my home well and the cost in my natural gas bill is reasonable to me. To date I have had no problems with leaks.

All the homes in my neighborhood are the same and some have had problems. Next door the second floor unit sprang a small leak spraying water in the attic that was not noticed until the walls started turning green. It was a costly repair for my neighbor.

I do not see a need to retrofit at this time for my home. I would like to install some water leak ropes that will notify me of any leaks. Also, I would like to get my hands on a spare blower motor fan assembly just in case I need one in the winter.

Personally I think the Apollo heating system has been great for my home and family.

[Crow]

Hi all, back to Apollo troubleshooting?

I have an Apollo Hydroheat system, Model L 55H 1GC.

The hot water line that comes from the furnace (with temp gauge) to the water heater starts to vibrate and squeal after about an hour of turning the furnace on.

I originally thought it started at a certain air temp. but during this cold snap the vibration and gurgling comes on a lot quicker, about 20-30 minutes after startup...

Is this a pump issue? Doesn't sound like bearing noise, hard to describe.

Hard water is an issue from my well, any guesses?

[karris]

I just bought a condo that uses this kind of heating system.  There was a very slight leak in the gas connection of the water heater when I moved in.  The gas company shut me down and I was in a hurry to get hot water in the place I was moving into in a few days.  The plumbing company claimed that the part was no longer available.  Now I've noticed the fine print that they don't deal with aftermarket companies.I probably could have gotten the old one to run for under a hundred bucks. Instead, they sold me on a new water heater for several thousand.  At the time I thought I was just going to switch to a heat pump, but now that I've learned more about this, I'm regretting I let them put a conventional water heater in.  Everyone in the building has this heating system, and they're working fine.  

I'm now being told that if I just had piping put in to re-connect to the air handler, I'd be back in business.  Conventional water heaters can run these systems. 

Is that true?  Are there problems doing this?  Will the new, conventional water heater have a shorter life span?  

[Jim Katen]

A good plumber or heating tech can connect the water heater to the air handler and it won't cause the water heater to have a shorter lifespan. However, the new water heater might or might not have adequate capacity. Oftentimes, those old Apollo systems had water heaters with beefed up burners. Do you happen to know the BTU/hr rating of the old water heater and the new one? 

[Mike Jackson]

Hello all. My GF has an Apollo HydroHeat system and experienced the following symptoms about a month ago:

1) Hot water when showering would run out very quickly, she says 30 seconds. Water was hot then cold, not lukewarm. House heat worked normally. The water heat issue continued for several days.

2) Next, no hot water at all. House heat normal. Several days of this.

3) After not showering in her house for a few days, she got a shower with, again, a brief amount of hot water.

4) Then no more hot water and no house heat, just cold air from vents.

Tonight I checked the water heater. The pilot light was out. I carefully followed the relight procedure printed on the tank; the pilot would visibly come on (via piezo click starter), stay on while I kept the gas control valve depressed in the pilot position for a minute, then quickly fade out when I released the button. Tried this several times, same each time.

I will try to attach a pic of the tank label but it's a 75-gallon, 75,000-BTU unit from State, build date is 2011. Model number is A675XRRSL 300.

Any help much appreciated! She's freezing in here.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Mike Jackson

[Jim Katen]

Start by replacing the thermocouple. That's why the pilot won't stay lit. 

If the house heat is working normally but the shower water gets cold too fast, it's probably a bad dip tube. 

[Mike Jackson]

OK, thanks Jim! She has a plumber coming out who specializes in Apollo systems (a guy on the staff of her regular plumber, who she has used before and trusts).

Side note: The Apollo guy can't come until next Wednesday because he stays booked up working on these systems. Like several other folks in this thread, we're in N.C....

I passed along your info to her and will try to be at her house when the plumber comes. I suspect a "non-Apollo" plumber could fix what sounds like basic water heater problems, but she wants to stick with the Apollo guy.

Again thanks, and I will update after the service call.

[Mike Jackson]

Well, now sticker shock. Guy says thermocouple tests fine but gas control valve bad. Expansion tank bladder bad. Corroded pipes (he showed me) and rusted pan under burner. Cost to attempt repair: $800. Cost to replace with new water heater and the various attached bits: $5,400.

He will attempt repair but warns the corroded pipes may not permit it.

[Jim Katen]

That's a lot of problems for an 8-year old water heater. These things often run 15 years with no problems. Bad gas valves just happen sometimes. The expansion tank was probably not properly pre-pressurized. Corroded pipes and a rusted pan are signs of a larger problem. I'd want to know why they're in such bad shape after so little time in service before I started fixing things. 

[Mike Jackson]

JIm, I passed that along to her. The plumber's coming back tomorrow; I can't be there, but I suggested she ask the guy what you said.

I think the people who owned the house before her did a lot of the mechanicals themselves, so they may have botched this system.

[Mike Jackson]

The saga continues. Parts finally arrived and the tank was repaired last Friday. New gas valve and thermocouple, new expansion tank, replaced corroded pipes. And for two days she had plenty of hot water.

However, it has been warm here until yesterday. Once it got cool again we turned on the downstairs and upstairs heat (70 downstairs until lowering to 68 at bedtime, 67 upstairs). This morning we woke up to the heat working ok downstairs but no heat at all upstairs, just blowing cold air out of the vents, and now the shower almost immediately runs out of hot water, maybe 30 seconds worth.

Only thing I can think of is what Jim mentioned above, a bad dip tube. The plumber is coming back this week to address a dripping shower valve and broken toilet. I'll have her ask him about the tube.

[Mike Jackson]

Another thought - maybe something wrong in the air handler that sends heat upstairs?? But then why rapidly running out of hot water again, too. Clearly seems to be not enough hot water being produced or accessible to provide a reasonable amount of DHW while also running the heat upstairs and down.

[Jim Katen]

Is the pilot at least staying lit? 

Does the flame come on when you turn up the temperature dial? 

 

 

[Mike Jackson]

Apparently there was air in the system that hadn't been fully purged. A few minutes with a hose and now there's heat upstairs, yay. On this the likely last day we'll need heat here.

[Jim Katen]

Look at it this way: you're ready for next year. 

[Inna]

Hello, Mr. Katen.

I bought my house last year and it has Apollo Hydroheat units, two of them. They are as old as the house 23 years old, and have worked perfectly. Sunday, all of  a sudden, my air conditioner stopped blowing cold air at all. I called the technician and since it was Memorial Day, he didn't check the attic unit, just measured the pressure of the outside unit and said that I have  a leak somewhere and the unit needs to be charged. He put 2 pounds of R22 into the unit and it started blowing cold air again. But by the evening, it would never cool the house till even 75 degrees. Today, same story, the blowing air is fairly warm and it's 83 degrees in the house. I also noticed water in the pan under the attic unit. I called the technician again and he may possibly come only tomorrow. He said that I will most likely have to change coil, or if he can't find such a coil, he suggests I should replace the system.

What are your thoughts and suggestions? I live in Columbus, GA and it's 95 degrees outside now. Thank you so much!

[Marc]

5 hours ago, Inna said:

Hello, Mr. Katen.

I bought my house last year and it has Apollo Hydroheat units, two of them. They are as old as the house 23 years old, and have worked perfectly. Sunday, all of  a sudden, my air conditioner stopped blowing cold air at all. I called the technician and since it was Memorial Day, he didn't check the attic unit, just measured the pressure of the outside unit and said that I have  a leak somewhere and the unit needs to be charged. He put 2 pounds of R22 into the unit and it started blowing cold air again. But by the evening, it would never cool the house till even 75 degrees. Today, same story, the blowing air is fairly warm and it's 83 degrees in the house. I also noticed water in the pan under the attic unit. I called the technician again and he may possibly come only tomorrow. He said that I will most likely have to change coil, or if he can't find such a coil, he suggests I should replace the system.

What are your thoughts and suggestions? I live in Columbus, GA and it's 95 degrees outside now. Thank you so much!

You need another AC guy.  This guy is crap.

There's several other things that could cause low pressure on the vapor line besides a low charge - dirty air filter, clogged evap coil, trapped debris (insulation perhaps) in the return air path, malfunctioning expansion valve and blower issues.

The water in the safety pan is likely melted ice.  Your unit has been freezing up by day, melting at night.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Marc

[Jim Katen]

In addition to what Marc said, it was irresponsible of that tech to add refrigerant to a system that he suspects of leaking. Especially with R22, which is getting to be very expensive stuff. If he's right and it leaked, the new stuff is just going to leak out as well. Air conditioners don't "use up" refrigerant. 

Someone needs to spend some time figuring out exactly what's wrong. If there's a leak in the piping or in a coil, it might be repairable. If the compressor is leaking, then it makes the most sense to replace the system. 

That said, 23 years of service from an air conditioner in Georgia is pretty good. Its time might be up. 

[WarrenT]

I'm another Durham person with an Apollo in a friend's townhouse. We replaced the water heater with a State a few years back, and I made a new pan for the evaporator a couple years back. This year. The AC ran for a month and then not so much. Repair folks added some R-22 and said they found a leak at the condenser and fixed it. The unit cooled for a day and then the air off of the condenser stopped being hot and the line at the evaporator in the attic got frozen. Refrigerant gone. They checked at the evaporator and said they could hear a leak (after adding a little refrigerant). Started to offer to take the evaporator to the shop, pressurize it to find the leak, and try to fix it. Then noticed it was an apollo and said that would be a waste of his time and my friend's money. But said if i could find an evaporator that would fit, he would put it in. So, I wondered a few things: Does this sound reasonable? Is there a replacement out there that will fit an apollo hb 3024 1G ?  If she has to put a heat pump in, does it make any sense to build the apollo heating radiator & pump into the new handler to use as auxiliary for days below 25 degrees?   Could I take this evaporator off and fix it? Warren

[Jim Katen]

How old is the system? At a certain point, it makes no sense to keep throwing money at it. 

That said, there's no question that there are evap coils out there that'll fit - a good tech should be able to find one without too much fuss. But if there have already been two leaks, what are you going to do with the next leak that shows up. How much more R-22 can you afford? 

 

[JG Long shot]

Greetings Jim,

I have learned a lot about this type of heating through this forum to keep all my unists running.

I was hoping Jim or anyone else has found a place that may have used or new heating coils to fit my situation ?

Its a very old log cabin and this older apollo unit works great.  Model # is H2824 1GS

My coil is cracked at one of the U bends and at this point non repairable.

Any chance someone has a line on a heating coil.

Length with brackets is about 41 inches.

Height is 10 inches

Thickness is .75

Thought I would give this a try.

thank you

JG

 

[Jim Katen]

Sorry, I don't know of such a resource. Have you asked a friendly heating tech to just cut out the split section and braze in a new piece of copper?