Wet vent used for sewage ejector/effluent pump

[msteger]

This morning's inspection led me to find a basement bathroom that was recently (within the past few years) added with a sewage ejector pump (aka effluent pump) installed and then two PVC (approx. 3" dia.) pipes coming out vertically out of the pump cover, then running approx. 2' horizontally into the main sewer line (just above the cleanout).

Both PVC pipes made the connection to the main sewer line with rubber (flexible) Y's aiming down (similar to sanitary Y's). I believe this would be called a "wet vent". I don't ever recall seeing a vent like this. Normally, one pipe connects directly into the sewer and another one disappears into the ceiling (to connect to the main stack) or runs directly outside.

Thoughts?

[ghentjr]

Home diddley installation. Vent should be to a proper plumbing vent.

[msteger]

I agree and recommended a licensed plumber be consulted for repair, but isn't what I described called a 'wet vent' and permitted in some areas?

[kurt]

2" is normal for a sewage ejector.

Whether or not a wet vent is allowed in your area is something you'd have to find out. In my 'hood, that'd be forbidden.

[msteger]

In my 'hood, we currently utilize the 2006 IRC. I know the UPC varies with the IRC when it comes to venting.

[ghentjr]

Around here a "wet" vent is simply the main house vent. Generally referred to when putting in another bath on the second floor, and using the main cast vent for both waste and venting. I guess what you described would also be considered a wet vent if the pipe it tied into was the main house vent.

[kurt]

That's the classic wet vent around here.

Folks go into the attic, see a stack, and think "cool, there's a drain in the attic where I can put another bathroom".

[msteger]

I still haven't determined if IRC or the AHJ permits wet vents for this type of application. I've left 4 messages for the local code inspector guy and he doesn't return calls.

[msteger]

Found out from the local code inspection guy that IRC permits wet vents in this type of installation, but the manufacturer of the pump may not permit it with their equipment.

[SonOfSwamp]

Originally posted by msteger

Found out from the local code inspection guy that IRC permits wet vents in this type of installation, but the manufacturer of the pump may not permit it with their equipment.

Manufacturer trumps codes bubba. Every time. Best, I think, to go straight to the manufacturer, and bypass the codes bubba(s) entirely. In my humble experience, codes bubbas are wrong about pretty much everything. Insufficient even for gov't. work...

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[charlieb]

Manufacturer trumps codes bubba. Every time. Best, I think, to go straight to the manufacturer, and bypass the codes bubba(s) entirely. In my humble experience, codes bubbas are wrong about pretty much everything. Insufficient even for gov't. work...

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I wish it won every time but sadly not.

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[SonOfSwamp]

Originally posted by charlieb

Manufacturer trumps codes bubba. Every time. Best, I think, to go straight to the manufacturer, and bypass the codes bubba(s) entirely. In my humble experience, codes bubbas are wrong about pretty much everything. Insufficient even for gov't. work...

WJid="blue">

I wish it won every time but sadly not.

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I could be wrong, but I think you're missing something. Just because the muni bubba says it's OK, that doesn't mean it's OK. Best I know, when a municipality adopts a building code, that doesn't mean that the bubbas can just make stuff up and sign off on the made-up stuff with impunity.

When bubba starts making stuff up, he's obliged to prove that his method is equal to or better than the method(s) described in the building code and/or the methods required by the manufacturer. If the muni guy doesn't do this, he gets near -- or across -- the line of "arbitrary and capricious." Not a good place to be.

I have it on good authority that in the not-too-distant future, any municipality that adopts a building code or codes will have to not only implement, but also enforce, the code.

Folks will run their businesses the way they want, but I'm pretty sure that it'll be hard for an HI to defend a blown call by sitting in the witness chair and pointing the finger at the local muni guy. An expert will point out that the HI should have gone to the highest and best authority, not the local yokel.

In the instance of the muni's note shown above, it's obvious that we're dealing with an illiterate. Easy pickins.

Structualbility? Sheesh.

WJ

[Jim Katen]

Originally posted by charlieb

I wish it won every time but sadly not.

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As I read it, the note says that you can cut studs to make room for plumbing pipes as long as you support the cut studs.

What does that have to do with manufacturer's instructions?

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[kurt]

What a beautiful mess of obfuscation and idiocy. Like the fellas just said, the muni guy isn't allowed to rule by decree.

"Structurability"???? wow.......

I'm not in my office, but which IRC section has the bit about "just because there's a certificate of occupancy issued, that doesn't mean the house complies with the building code"(?).

Even the IRC recognizes that muni guys are fallible, and that they will make wrong calls.

I wouldn't get to worked up over this though; it's just another goofy thing. You did your job.

[hausdok]

Originally posted by charlieb

Manufacturer trumps codes bubba. Every time. Best, I think, to go straight to the manufacturer, and bypass the codes bubba(s) entirely. In my humble experience, codes bubbas are wrong about pretty much everything. Insufficient even for gov't. work...

WJid="blue">

I wish it won every time but sadly not.

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Hi Charlie,

I think that could be an opportunity for you. Gather up the various published information that affirms the fact that a manufacturer's specs trump code and that muni inspectors can't arbitrarily rule by decree and then show up for a town council meeting with copies in hand to distribute to the council members and clue them in to what's going on right under everyone's nose.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[charlieb]

WJ

I gave the client his options. Provided the install instructions.

Walk from the house

Buy the house and accept the risk of failure

Buy the house and pay a carpenter to make the neede3d repairs -- the route chosen.

Mike,

I take a different route. Most of the munis are decent guys but they have all the typical excuses. I joined the local BO org. I sit with these guys monthly over a meal and we talk about stuff like this. Slowly they are coming around and looking for the things they should be. The same muni who penned this letter now looks at the way furnace vents are installed. Typically long horiz runs and/or short vent height above high pitch roofs. Same agent, muni, different client and builder met me at the house in question on the vent. We went through the IRC sections on the items the builder was whining about. In that case the muni made the builder do the right thing.

I'm more of a sugar guy than one who will p#$$ in their Wheaties. It's the southern way.

[SonOfSwamp]

Originally posted by charlieb

WJ

I gave the client his options. Provided the install instructions.

Walk from the house

Buy the house and accept the risk of failure

Buy the house and pay a carpenter to make the neede3d repairs -- the route chosen.

Yeah, but you left out giving your customer the option of going over the illiterate muni bubba's head, having a shot at getting the job done right (per code), and creating the "teachable moment" that might've made the whole muni operation start reading and reasoning in a professional kinda way.

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[charlieb]

Originally posted by SonOfSwamp

Originally posted by charlieb

WJ

I gave the client his options. Provided the install instructions.

Walk from the house

Buy the house and accept the risk of failure

Buy the house and pay a carpenter to make the neede3d repairs -- the route chosen.

Yeah, but you left out giving your customer the option of going over the illiterate muni bubba's head, having a shot at getting the job done right (per code), and creating the "teachable moment" that might've made the whole muni operation start reading and reasoning in a professional kinda way.

WJid="blue">

noted

[msteger]

Since this was a sealed effluent pump, I could not see the pump or determine the manufacturer.