Onions needed - Inspection software I wrote

[Michael Brown]

Hey John I didn't say anything negative about your report! [:-taped]

It maybe fun to create software (the novelty does wear off) and if that is what you want to do okay... but you have a long road ahead of you. Software is not a Word template... it has features that automate the process as well as storing your comments and changes in a database.

InspectExpress uses a database has a great format and integrates with Outlook for clients and scheduling. It doesn't use its own word processor because Microsoft Word has one that cannot be matched and it gets to use all of its features. It doesn't have a scheduler for the same reason... no point in spending hundreds of hours to develop some scheduler when there is already something you can integrate with that is better. Everything you are about to learn has already been done. You can customize most inspection software to change the look, fonts, cover, colors, order of items etc.

However it doesn't integrate with your accounting program... but you could simply write software that creates an invoice in Microsoft Word and exports the information to your accounting program at the same time. Still some fun but not a total waste of time.

Here is a link to a:Sample Report

Michael Brown

Devwave Software Inc.

[sepefrio]

Originally posted by admin

Hey John I didn't say anything negative about your report! [:-taped]

It maybe fun to create software (the novelty does wear off) and if that is what you want to do okay... but you have a long road ahead of you. Software is not a Word template... it has features that automate the process as well as storing your comments and changes in a database.

InspectExpress uses a database has a great format and integrates with Outlook for clients and scheduling. It doesn't use its own word processor because Microsoft Word has one that cannot be matched and it gets to use all of its features. It doesn't have a scheduler for the same reason... no point in spending hundreds of hours to develop some scheduler when there is already something you can integrate with that is better. Everything you are about to learn has already been done. You can customize most inspection software to change the look, fonts, cover, colors, order of items etc.

However it doesn't integrate with your accounting program... but you could simply write software that creates an invoice in Microsoft Word and exports the information to your accounting program at the same time. Still some fun but not a total waste of time.

Here is a link to a:Sample Report

Michael Brown

Devwave Software Inc.

Michael,

lol no problem and I'm not insulting yours either. I checked out your program and I kind of like it. Actually if I fail in my efforts, (which I refuse to do) unless convinced otherwise, I will probably give it a go. But I'm also a bit gun shy of buying a generic program from the horrible experience with my current. BTW, I know it's a lot more than just a word document, I'm writing this in VB. Oh, and the format of the printed report itself is not what I don't like, it the whole package. It's just that 90% of that package is my own personal use. I'm not asking for thoughts on the majority of the program because I'm the only one who will see/use it and I'm the only one who needs to be happy with it. The printed report however, is what will be seen by others. Thus I can't put Buccaneer logos, rude comments, little personal reminders or other stuff like that on it.

As was mentioned before, everyone likes their own thing. Neither of us can make a program that 100% satisfies everyone. But if I can put out a format that maybe people don't like but can tolerate I'm close. I'm here now for the comments like Jim's where he mentioned to clarify the meaning of clearance or corrections like how do you heat hot water.

Again folks remember, this is not a little word document. If I put a lot more time into it I could sell it like the others. I'd also have to change a lot of things so anyone could use it instead of hard coding my personal information into it. But I'm not trying to have a conversation about what program is better or worse.

David,

You suggested exactly what I don't want. Does your reporting program talk to that intuit program or are you having to input the exact same information several times? None of the programs that I know do. Thus in both the Report Plus and Quicken you have to input things such as Name, Date, amount etc. Some don't care about that and thats cool, I think it's working harder not smarter. Call me picky if you want, but thats the way I feel.

Bain

First, I actually asked for Onions not opinions Anyways, your right I asked several questions in my first post. And none of those were answered. It's like taking a test, the teacher tells you you got a 85% but won't tell you what you got right or wrong. Frustrating. And if you notice, my reply was before his thought out responses and after the one that merely stated it was amateurish. And it doesn't sting at all. I respect everyones opinion here otherwise I wouldn't ask. But that doesn't mean I'm sending you a Christmas card.

Jim,

Now that we are having a good talk about this lets keep it up. I have already incorporated or am working on previous stuff talked about but we appear (or at least I am) stuck on the order. Again, I did this format as a start, copied in the same format of my current program. It was just the starting point. So lets talk that a little bit. BTW anyone can add their two cents here too.

Order of the Beta version I posted.

TITLE PAGE

OVERVIEW

SYSTEM DETAILS

DETAILED COMMENTS (Room order)

SUMMARY (Type of comment order, Major, Safety etc)

Well I think we can all agree that the TITLE PAGE comes first and some sort of OVERVIEW should follow that. What I'm leaning towards now is replacing DETAILED and SUMMARY with one section such as CONCERNS NOTED. Maybe even two copies of the same section, one in room order, the other in system order. No longer declare something as major or minor or whatever. Just list everything as equal value. I'm also thinking about adding a GLOSSARY section to define things such as AFCI. I know it doesn't add a ton to the file size, but you think adding a copy of the SOP would be good? Or maybe attach the SOP to the contract and just refer to it? I don't want the report 97 pages long. Actually Jim, would you mind sending me a blank copy of your report format so I can actually see how you are doing it.

[Chris Bernhardt]

Well, while were back on the subject of report organization, how important is the placement of disclosures and disclaimers?

IMO they are so unimportant I threw all my at the back of my report to be read when they ran out of sleeping pills.

But, what say yee?

Chris, Oregon

[Jim Morrison]

You know what?

Home inspection reports are -taken as a whole- virtually unintelligible. (Note to reader: I'm not just talking about your competition. I'm talking about YOU!) I don't know if I've ever read an entire HI report from front to back, ever. I'd much rather sit through back to back Hannah Montana concerts than read an entire home inspection report. After licensing forced me to report on the meaningless, even reading my own reports started to make me throw up in my mouth a little.

Generally speaking, we inspectors are abominable writers (much, much worse than we think), so asking for report writing input on an inspector forum is risky business. But TIJ readers are lucky: We have Katen.

For my money, Katen is the very finest technical writer in this business. His writing isn't just easy to understand, it's damned near impossible to misunderstand. Cramer, Mitenbuler, Fabry, Jowers, and a few others do it really, really well, too. Most of the rest of us do not. Actually, almost none of us do. I'm sorry to be the one to tell you this, but if you are reading this post, you may be a wonderful person, but you almost certainly suck as a technical writer. Your clients are very likely not getting most of what you are trying to give them in a report. No, really, they aren't. Seriously.

Here's the most complete, succinct report writing advice there is:

Listen to Katen. Even when he's wrong, he's righter than you are.

[dcmeagle]

Originally posted by sepefrio

As for the programs you mentioned, I don't think so. I even went to their websites to confirm, not a single one of them will download banking information and compare it with my information to balance my books.

From a programming standpoint, how are you managing to connect to your bank and compare it with your books? What programming language are you using? Even for us to setup credit card processing for home inspectors using our software involved us signing lots of contracts to get an API to work with.

To be honest, every bank is different, requiring different info to connect to them. The reason no inspection software vendor would touch this is it would be a huge amount of work for little return (remember there is a very small amount of inspectors worldwide). It makes much more sense for an inspector to use Quickbooks (which is made by a billion dollar company, 100x the worth of all the inspection software companies combined) which will do more than any inspection program could ever do. You don't want inspection vendors writing accounting software for you! The best thing for inspection programs to do is to provide an easy way to get information in and out the program and in to Quickbooks (or another accounting program) so you don't have to duplicate info. I know there are good inspection packages out there right now that will do this. Honestly, ours isn't one of them, but it is something we hope to get added into a version in the next few months (other features to add in first).

[randynavarro]

I don't know. . . I think most experienced inspectors' reactions to this thread are probably very similar to mine: "Oh, no. Not another software / reporting methodto look at."

We're reacting to the plain and simple truth (which Jim Morrison has already stated) that home inspector software and layouts just suck. Nothing personal. . . it's just reality.

Frankly, I'm fed up with software and even report writing. I've come to the honest truth that I enjoy inspecting, but hate writing. I'm rapidly descending to writing reports by punching out some simple sentences on a blank Word document and maybe throw in a few pictures. Hmm. . . kind of like Walter J. has been preaching for years. I'm too scared to get there, though, thinking that the clients expect more "bang for their buck".

Input and opinions on your stuff? It's visually way too busy (too many lines and boxes) and just cumbersome to read through. I know the content hasn't been filled, but I couldn't figure what you're trying to tell me (the client) even imagining if the boxes were all filled with proper info.

Why re-invent the wheel?

Me? I'd spend the hours learning something more relevant to home inspecting or playing with the kids.

[Jim Katen]

Originally posted by sepefrio

. . . Well I think we can all agree that the TITLE PAGE comes first and some sort of OVERVIEW should follow that. What I'm leaning towards now is replacing DETAILED and SUMMARY with one section such as CONCERNS NOTED. Maybe even two copies of the same section, one in room order, the other in system order.

I think that presenting the same information twice in the body of the report will get confusing fast. The room by room style of report is a holdover from NCR days. It's convenient for the inspector but not so much for the customer. If you want to do some fancy programming, get your software to accept input on a room-by-room basis and have it drop the information into fields that are organized by system.

No longer declare something as major or minor or whatever. Just list everything as equal value.

That's how I do it. However, I must say that customers seem to like having someone tell them how important each defect is, especially in relation to the other defects. I try to do that with descriptions in the body of the comment. Lots of inspectors are very successfull, though, using sorting terms such as major, minor, safety, etc.

I'm also thinking about adding a GLOSSARY section to define things such as AFCI.

More page turning. I suggest either defining the item right there in the text or using a footnote on the same page. It's considerate to the reader.

I know it doesn't add a ton to the file size, but you think adding a copy of the SOP would be good? Or maybe attach the SOP to the contract and just refer to it? I don't want the report 97 pages long.

I'd send the standards to the customer along with a contract right after you book the inspection. There's no need to include them in the report.

Actually Jim, would you mind sending me a blank copy of your report format so I can actually see how you are doing it.

I'll attach a sample to this post. Given what you've told me so far, you probably won't find it very useful.

Download Attachment: Katen_Sample_08.pdf

1347.56 KB

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[SonOfSwamp]

Originally posted by Jim Morrison

Here's the most complete, succinct report writing advice there is:

Listen to Katen. Even when he's wrong, he's righter than you are.

Perfectly stated. On his worst day, Katen is the best HI-report-writer in all the land. And, knowing something of his sense of humor, I think I can get away with saying that even the best HI-report-writer on earth is a rough equivalent of the best one-legged swimmer in the tuberculosis sanitorium. That is, there is no great reward for being great at a thing that most people don't value.

Why does Katen write so well? It's because writers are born, not made. They pop out of the womb knowing how to write well. Just like Michael Phelps was born with just the right amount of fast-twitch muscle fiber, and an odd arm-to-leg-length ratio.

Brother Katen has an innate gift and feel for the work. Katen's is a rare talent that 99.9% of HIs will never have. No amount of Q&A among home inspectors is going to create a culture of excellent writers, graphic designers, bookkeepers, etc.

One thing I feel sure Katen does: As he writes, he asks himself the question, "what does the reader want to know right now?" Then he writes the sentences that answer that question. And he gets the spelling, punctuation, syntax, grammar, logic, etc. right. It's really a simple formula.

WJid="blue">

[Jim Katen]

Well, gosh whiz, Walter, you & Morrison are going to give me a swelled head. Thanks for the kind words. I think that we like each other's writing because we share a certain type of writing aesthetic.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[sepefrio]

Jim,

I see a fundamental difference in our comments style and I like yours better. I was simply stating the problem. You have the comment broken into two sections, identify the problem, then the recommendation. First it makes a statement, that leads to the reader having a question, then you promptly answer that same question. So when your done reading it, you have full understanding.

As for the sorting the input. I knew I could be doing this one of several ways, so I built in 6 different ways to sort each comment: Room, System, alphabetically, comment number, comment title and miscellaneous. Further I can group and sort, so I can group by system and sort by comment number or any combination of the same. So for the program itself, I only have to change the report layout, not the code.

What I can also do is make a separate report for my re-inspections. A room by room checklist just for me so I can follow along in order vice jumping around.

BTW, do you use a PDA on site? I'm kind of scared to myself. So far I've crushed the LCD on two cameras from crawling and contorting into spaces.

[sepefrio]

Another question for everyone, model and serial numbers, who does and who does not include them in their report? I see on Jim's sample he does not. If you don't, how do you account for multiple units? In reality, the numbers themselves are rather useless they can only prove the unit you actually inspected if someone were to dig that deep. I'm not talking about information gained (BTU, age) I'm referring to the actual numbers themselves.

At my school and with multiple inspectors I trained with, they all said yes. Of course those inspectors were in different states (not required here) so they may have been answering for their locations. To date, no one has ever asked for, about or in reference to such information. But I'd just like the general "Onion" here.

Also Jim, I noticed in your heating and cooling section, you only listed a furnace. Would you make a separate Description section for other parts of the system?

Yes it's almost 5am and I'm still at it. The wife and kids are enjoying life at our beach house in Spain. I'll be going myself next week. So I'm burning the midnight oil to get things done that I've always wanted to.

[davidlord]

John. That was sarcasm. My wife sometimes does not appreciate it either.

[Bob White]

Mr. Katen:

That was one clean report. I mave some work to do now. Thanks for posting it.

Mr. Coker: I record model and serial numbers at new home inspections. Sometimes the new appliances get replaced by used ones between the inspection and move-in date.

[kurt]

I've found photos to be the best record of what I did, what I saw, serial #'s, etc., as anything. I take approx. 100 photos per job nowadays. It adds zero time to the inspection. Zero.

Each job has it's own photolog file, indexed/related to the master file.

All this "I walked on the roof and I saw 3 blahs, 11 other quase-blahs, and there is a blah over on the south blah......", and then reporting on it, has gone away. If someone ever asks, I pull up the photolog, and there it all is, where I was, what I looked at.

Who in Gods green acre wants to read that stuff?

Another benefit is report writing. Lots of times I write the report by looking at the photolog well after the inspection.

Which brings me to an observation I've had for the last several years.

If you simply look at the stuff you're supposed to look at, report on it competently if it's reportable, then no one ever calls you back asking questions, or questioning what it is you did or didn't do. Hence, it cuts down on a lot of extraneous documentation of silly things that everyone that doesn't look at what they're supposed to be looking at thinks is critically important to write about.

More pictures, less words.

Reason being, the power of an idea is totally lost if someone can't understand what the hell you're talking about. Pictures make everyone understand, so the "power" of the report goes up exponentially.

[Chris Bernhardt]

I'm way ahead of you guys. I stole, uh... I mean borrowed Jims narrative style earlier this year.

I have talked to Jim about his style and I don't think he had even realized the pure genius in it.

I'm lucky in that I get to trap him, regularly at our monthly ASHI chapter meetings and pepper him with questions and get to listen to all his sage advice in person face to face.

Chris, Oregon

[Chris Bernhardt]

Originally posted by kurt

If you simply look at the stuff you're supposed to look at, report on it competently if it's reportable, then no one ever calls you back asking questions, or questioning what it is you did or didn't do. Hence, it cuts down on a lot of extraneous documentation of silly things that everyone that doesn't look at what they're supposed to be looking at thinks is critically important to write about.

If you have ever read autopsy reports, you'll find that there is usually no description of unremarkable features.

Liver - Unremarkable

I use to focus on the details that were wrong. I have learned from the old farts to focus on the problems that are likely to occur. I touch on the problem in the narrative and leave the details for the picture and ensure that my recommendation will cover all necessary ground.

Because I might have 2 or 3 photos covering a particular issue I have long used a comic book format, an idea that I stole from Kurt M., to publish the photos in the report. Otherwise I have an ordered summary that is the report in the style of Jim Katens narrative.

Time after time when I talk to clients they jump right to Kurts comic book formatted photos to discuss the report.

The narrative seems to be relegated to the official bantering between the agents.

Chris, Oregon

[SonOfSwamp]

Originally posted by Chris Bernhardt

I'm way ahead of you guys. I stole, uh... I mean borrowed Jims narrative style earlier this year.

I have talked to Jim about his style and I don't think he had even realized the pure genius in it.

Chris, Oregon

That's because the real enough geniuses don't think much about their work. They just do it. Comes natural. It's a gift.

WJid="blue">

[kurt]

Originally posted by Chris Bernhardt

Time after time when I talk to clients they jump right to Kurts comic book formatted photos to discuss the report.

Chris, Oregon

That's consistent with my experience.

Even when you write with the clarity of Katen, the technical proficiency of Mr. O', or the just plain engaging insights of Walter, folks really don't give a shit. No one wants to know this stuff but us.

I interpret the blank stares on most of my clients faces as stark incredulity (w/a little confusion thrown in) that anyone (me) knows all this extraneata (I just made that word up).

Folks just want a house that works, and the shortest line between 2 points that it takes to get there.

Pictures are the shortest line.

Apologies to all the writers out there that live and die with the idea that they are being understood through their written words, truly one of the greatest accomplishments of the intelligent being.

[kurt]

Originally posted by SonOfSwamp

That's because the real enough geniuses don't think much about their work. They just do it. Comes natural. It's a gift.

WJid="blue">

Katen channeling home inspection epiphany' will become my new mental image mantra.......

[Tom Raymond]

extraneata (I just made that word up).

Kurt,

If you hurry up you just might be able to claim ownership of that. There is no match in wikipedia or dictionary.com, but a google search turned up 54 articles, blogs, etc. containing the word.[:-graduat

Tom

The search engines all wanted to correct my spelling to extranet, and we thought that HI's couldn't spell.

[kurt]

OK. It's mine.

Where do I hurry up to, to stake my claim?

[sepefrio]

Originally posted by dcmeagle

Originally posted by sepefrio

As for the programs you mentioned, I don't think so. I even went to their websites to confirm, not a single one of them will download banking information and compare it with my information to balance my books.

From a programming standpoint, how are you managing to connect to your bank and compare it with your books? What programming language are you using? Even for us to setup credit card processing for home inspectors using our software involved us signing lots of contracts to get an API to work with.

To be honest, every bank is different, requiring different info to connect to them. The reason no inspection software vendor would touch this is it would be a huge amount of work for little return (remember there is a very small amount of inspectors worldwide). It makes much more sense for an inspector to use Quickbooks (which is made by a billion dollar company, 100x the worth of all the inspection software companies combined) which will do more than any inspection program could ever do. You don't want inspection vendors writing accounting software for you! The best thing for inspection programs to do is to provide an easy way to get information in and out the program and in to Quickbooks (or another accounting program) so you don't have to duplicate info. I know there are good inspection packages out there right now that will do this. Honestly, ours isn't one of them, but it is something we hope to get added into a version in the next few months (other features to add in first).

The impossible part, and the reason most people don't do it is the vast amount of banks out there. You need security information for each one. So Instead of actually talking to the bank itself, I download my report from the bank then import that to my database. That way they can talk to each other. I actually made it in two parts, one where I copied the banks exact format so everything matches. Then the information gets duplicated (yeah I know that increases DB size) and put in a format I want to work with.

From a programming stand point, it is very sloppy. But for my personal use, it works.