caryseidner Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 I did an inspection today and found a sub-panel located in the bathroom. I remember seeing somewhere in the IRC that bathrooms are prohibited locations, so I looked it up when I got back to the office and found this in the 2006 IRC: "E3305.4 Location of working spaces and equipment.... Panelboards and overcurrent protection devices shall not be located in clothes closets or bathrooms." So fine I'll site the bad location in the report, but I've seen dozens of new construction condos with panels located in the closets. Technically they may be considered sub-panels, as the one I found in the bathroom today was, but this shouldn't make a difference...right? Should I have been calling all of these panels out in my reports? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian G Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 You're correct, it doesn't matter if it's the service equipment or not. Brian G. A Panelboard Is A Panelboard [:-star] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 Originally posted by caryseidner I did an inspection today and found a sub-panel located in the bathroom. I remember seeing somewhere in the IRC that bathrooms are prohibited locations, so I looked it up when I got back to the office and found this in the 2006 IRC: "E3305.4 Location of working spaces and equipment.... Panelboards and overcurrent protection devices shall not be located in clothes closets or bathrooms." So fine I'll site the bad location in the report, but I've seen dozens of new construction condos with panels located in the closets. Technically they may be considered sub-panels, as the one I found in the bathroom today was, but this shouldn't make a difference...right? Should I have been calling all of these panels out in my reports? Personally, I prefer to use the NEC for electrical references. I've never had anyone challenge me on it. The NEC citation for the bathroom issue is 240.24(E). It prohibits overcurrent devices from being installed in bathrooms. It's got nothing to do with panelboards, so you don't have to worry about whether it's a service panel or a sub panel. The NEC citation for clothes closets isn't really for clothes closets at all. It's 240.24(D). It prohibits overcurrent devices in "the vicinity of easily ignitible material, such as in clothes closets." Clothes closets are just one example of a location that contains easily ignitible material. - Jim Katen, Oregon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlieb Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 Or, a storage room in a garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caryseidner Posted May 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 Thank you for all your help, but now I am more confused. Should I be writing up panels found in garages, closets and behind access panels in a finished basement too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 Originally posted by caryseidner Thank you for all your help, but now I am more confused. Should I be writing up panels found in garages, closets and behind access panels in a finished basement too? I can't tell you what to write up. You'll have to decide for yourself. The NEC changes every three years and new editions aren't retroactive; they only apply to new work. It's up to you to figure out what issues are important enough to merit "writing up." The OCDs aren't supposed to be installed in the vicinity of easily ignitible material. The NEC gives clothes closets as an example of such a location. It's up to the reader to decide what other locations are similar. Personally, I think that garages are a fine place for electrical equipment and I think that wooden access panels don't qualify as "easily ignitible." At least, they're not as easily ignitible as a closet full of clothes. As for other closets, if I see a closet rod, I consider it a clothes closet. If there is no rod, I mention to my customer that he shouldn't store easily ignitible materials in there. - Jim Katen, Oregon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caryseidner Posted May 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 Thanks Jim. I get it. In your opinion would a bathroom panel, that is recessed in the wall and actually located in a WC, be anymore susecptable to moisture issues than an exterior panel? Although they are not too common in my area, I have seen them and I believe they are more readily found in other parts of the country. I'm also assuming that moisture is this issue with bathroom overcurrent protection devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 Originally posted by caryseidner Thanks Jim. I get it. In your opinion would a bathroom panel, that is recessed in the wall and actually located in a WC, be anymore susecptable to moisture issues than an exterior panel? Although they are not too common in my area, I have seen them and I believe they are more readily found in other parts of the country. I'm also assuming that moisture is this issue with bathroom overcurrent protection devices. Well, clearly, electrical equipment that's located outdoors will be exposed to a greater amount of moisture than equipment that's installed in bathrooms. But I'm not so sure that moisture alone is the issue with OCDs in bathrooms. I suspect it's more a combination of OCDs in locations where there's a combination of moisture and nekkid people at the same time. That combination is less likely to occur outdoors. (Except in Eugene, maybe.) - Jim Katen, Oregon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caryseidner Posted May 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 Wouldn't nekkid people be LESS flammable than clothed ones? Richard Prior told me about some wild party he was at once... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msteger Posted May 9, 2008 Report Share Posted May 9, 2008 A few weeks ago I found that the seller had added a full bathroom in the corner of the basement basement. In this basement corner is where the electrical panel is also located. Technically, the panel was in a closed off section (approx. 6' x 6') of the bathroom, but technically, I believed that the panel should not be there (or better yet, the bathroom should not have been added there) since the source air to the panel is from the full bathroom. An obvious source of moist air. Did I make the right call? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted May 9, 2008 Report Share Posted May 9, 2008 Originally posted by msteger A few weeks ago I found that the seller had added a full bathroom in the corner of the basement basement. In this basement corner is where the electrical panel is also located. Technically, the panel was in a closed off section (approx. 6' x 6') of the bathroom, but technically, I believed that the panel should not be there (or better yet, the bathroom should not have been added there) since the source air to the panel is from the full bathroom. An obvious source of moist air. Did I make the right call? The breakers shouldn't be in a bathroom. The NEC defines bathroom as, "An area including a basin with one or more of the following: a toilet, a tub , or a shower." I honestly don't believe it's got anything to do with moist air. From your description, it doesn't sound as if the room that contains the breakers fits the NEC definition of a bathroom. - Jim in Oregon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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