Hardiplank Problems

[janineanne]

John, I'm pretty sure it wasn't Forensic's fault - I was there when they did their inspection and I didn't see them doing anything in that area. Besides, the inspection was done almost 3 years ago so it's probably too late to prove that it was them anyway.

Jim has described the scenario pretty much perfectly, except that there wasn't any fixed buy-in amount. Each homeowner who joined the lawsuit was to be responsible for an equal share of the law firm's expenses and there was no information provided at all for how much that might be. So we would have been signing up to be responsible for some unknown amount of money, for which we would have to take their word that it was valid, without any idea if we would get any money from the settlement at all. The whole situation felt shady to us so we decided to bow out. The risk to reward ratio just didn't seem like a good bet.

I've posted the "preliminary building envelope investigation" report to Dropbox for anyone who wants to take a look at it:

https://db.tt/yMMpuRA6

[janineanne]

So, did everyone who wanted one get a copy of that report from Forensic, and does anyone have any thoughts on it? Thanks in advance for your time if you read it!

[kurt]

I got it, read it. Thanks, always helpful.

Yes, Jim's description is spot on for this type of activity, and your report was credible.

The report describes a lot of stuff that is, without trying to sound too jaded or cynical, par for the course (sort of, with variables).

Unless something really crazy shows up, I'd get it fixed, paint it, and move on with my life.

[janineanne]

Unless something really crazy shows up, I'd get it fixed, paint it, and move on with my life.

That's exactly the plan. Except we want to fix it ourselves, if possible - just not sure how to do it. That's why I showed up here.

[Jim Katen]

In a timely development, I received a subpoena for a report that I did 9 years ago for a house in an Arbor development. The attorney's are gearing up for yet another suit.

[janineanne]

Probably because ours has settled, so they have extra capacity. Although it might not be the same one - ours was handled by Ball Janik.

[hafcanadian]

Janine-

I might suggest that you at least consult with a certified JHardie installer. There is one in your area that only does replacement work, not new homes, and is very competent working with HardiPlank and cedar. Check the Better Business Bureau site, then give a call to the one with the initials ACAE. They use backer rod and flashing in the appropriate places and Sonneborn Sonolastic 150 caulk.

You probably just have Tyvek for a moisture barrier. There is better technology available now, and this installer is on the cutting edge of the newest ideas. They are all about making a house "bomb proof" for the full length of Hardie's warranty when it comes to water penetration, and they are especially good at it because of their region of the country (yours). The Tyvek will have to do if you aren't doing a complete replacement of course, but a consult might at least get you some very useful insight as to what you are really up against in total.

I'd also powerwash the siding after repairs are done and use only Miller Paint. It protected our LP siding for 17 years before problems showed up, long after most others' LP had rotted and been replaced. Miller is also a company local to you and well-versed on water and mold repellency.

[robsha]

I know this post is pretty old but I have some questions about the Hardie Plank on my house the last 2 years I have been noticing some sort of brown dripping from under my siding. I live in Washington and this is on the south side of my house that gets most of the weather. Can you guys tell me what is going on here?

Thanks

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[Jim Katen]

I know this post is pretty old but I have some questions about the Hardie Plank on my house the last 2 years I have been noticing some sort of brown dripping from under my siding. I live in Washington and this is on the south side of my house that gets most of the weather. Can you guys tell me what is going on here?

Thanks

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Is there a bathroom on the other side of that wall?

[robsha]

No bathroom 2 bedrooms on second floor and office and family room on 1st floor.

[robsha]

There are 3 wood wrapped windows on that side of the house. there is some cracking which has been sealed with caulk and I have had 2 boards that that the nails in the upper corner has just broke at the nail and the board slipped sown about 1/2 inch. Looks like the corner nails were installed correctly within the hardy guidelines in this spec. (http://www.jameshardie.com/d2w/installa ... -ca-en.pdf).

[Jim Katen]

I don't know. Pull off a plank or two and look at what's going on behind them.

[mark parlee]

Get us some elevation photos of the entire side of the house where the problem is showing up.

Where at in Washington and what is the climate zone?

Have the last two winters been a lot colder than the previous ones in the last ten years?

What is the wall sheathing material?

Is there a WRB (weather resistant barrier) between the siding and the wall sheathing?

If so do you know the brand of the WRB?

[robsha]

Hello Mark, just saw your mail. We have actually had fairly mild winters in Olympia Washington compares to others. I am pretty sure there is Tyvec for the WRB. I will try to get pics during the day and post back when I can.

Thanks

Robert

[hausdok]

My guess is that the butt joints are neither splined, in substantial contact with one another or sealed with caulk and that the underlayment is black building paper - which is very common here - and what you're seeing is some weeping of the paper. If that's the case it might be caused by the asphalt paper weeping behind the siding.

[MIantfarm]

Just found this forum. Can someone tell me about issues with Hardie after it has been installed wet? I have whole sections of my home that were very recently resided with Hardie ColorPlus planks that are curling up at the ends and bowing away from the walls in the middle of pieces. It bows away from the wall enough that if you were to look up the wall, it looks like fish gills. I would never be able to wash the home off with a hose... Water would go straight behind the siding. There have been a bunch of scraps in my garage the last few months that the installers left behind. On a hunch, and after getting zero help from Hardie after they heard the word wet, I laid out some of the planks. Sure enough, they are lifting off the ground on the ends. I should also note that some of the ends have lifted strongly enough that they have broken the Quad caulk that was used to weatherproof the ends where the boards meet vertical trim. The company that installed the siding wants to face nail the worst spots to 'fix' my issue. I'm very worried of two things: 1. Hardie has already said that they will not warranty the material. 2. I'm worried that with the amount of force that's required to press the material down into submission that stress cracks will develop across the boards, making for some very unflattering siding and a home that I will never be able to sell in 5-8 years.

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[mark parlee]

What does the exterior elevation views of the home look like?

How do you know the product was wet?

Did you measure the MC in any way?

How was the product stored onsite and did it get rain on it?

Are you saying it showed up to the site wet?

When I am doing an investigation on product failure I have to answer these question and more, so this is a start.

Do you have pictures of before and during the project?

[MIantfarm]

When the sun shines on any particular wall the shadow lines vary widely, my first clue that something was up. It was noticing that that got me to check the siding closer.

I saw the product arrive dry. Several pallets along driveway which was covered with pieces of house wrap. House wrap would not stay on in wind and also didn't come close to reach the ground. Proceeded to get rained on endlessly for weeks. I complained many times about storing material dry. Their solution was to pile fresh boards previously under house wrap on top of the wrap to keep the house wrap from blowing off. House wrap is great at holding water in dams BTW, as piles would get lower and the blocking to keep it from blowing away got more creative, quite often I would come home to find the material being stored in mini 'swimming pools' basically. We had extensive rainy weather the entire spring. I called attention to the wet siding with the install crew many times, they ignored me. Quite often they would just leave wet pieces leaning against the house or laying out in the lawn while they waited for the next day to try and continue working.

Did not measure the MC in any way though that would have been a great idea at the time, darn it.

I have endless pictures documenting the entire siding removal, Hardie siding arrival, and weeks and weeks of install progress. Probably 100 or more documenting wet conditions, siding storage conditions, near and far views of siding, views showing siding breaking beads of caulk, missing caulk, unpainted ends, etcetera.

Thank you for the response.

[mark parlee]

look up my contact inf on my website and give me a call.Tonight if you wish

[RJ]

When you're talking about peeling paint, generally you have to follow the water. In almost every case I've found, water pushes the paint off of most substrates including cement siding. Check your flashing details everywhere. Seal where you can because it may be the only thing you can do at this point. Good luck !

FYI - We always install a rain screen behind hardiboard. I talked to a hardi rep last year at an installation demo. They require a rain screen on commercial buildings above 2 stories. If they required it in residential applications, they may not sell much product. I remember approx 15-20 years ago the rain screen material used to be sold along side of hardi board. Lumber yards didn't sell the product so they almost all stopped carrying it.

[robsha]

There are 3 wood wrapped windows on that side of the house. there is some cracking which has been sealed with caulk and I have had 2 boards that that the nails in the upper corner has just broke at the nail and the board slipped sown about 1/2 inch. Looks like the corner nails were installed correctly within the hardy guidelines in this spec. (http://www.jameshardie.com/d2w/installa ... -ca-en.pdf).

OK finally had a contractor look at our issue it appears that the original builder never flashed the windows in our house. So the side we were having the issues with there was water finding it's way under the siding. We had to replace the siding on the whole side of the house problem solved unfortunately it was very expensive. Luckily there was only a small portion of the OSB underneath the tyvek that needed replaced.

[mark parlee]

How old is the house. Most states have a 10 year statute of repose for construction defect damages, 15 in my state.

If you just had it fixed and did't document the damages you probably would have a tough time in presenting a case.

If it was done wrong on one side then it is probably done wrong on all. The problem may appear later if it hasn't already on the other sides of the home.

Here is an article hat might be somewhat pertinent to you

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[robsha]

Mark, House was built in 97 and yes none of the windows were flashed correctly. We are the second owners so we probably would not have had much recourse with the builder. I have actually fixed 2 other windows that are on weathered sides of our house. The rest of the windows do not get the weather so we are not worrying about those.

[mark parlee]

Robsha

Thanks for the additional info.

Too much time has passed to do anything. as I said in my state it's 15 years but even that has passed in your situation. Also here it does not matter that you are one of the successive owners, you could be the 10th owner and still have recourse as long as the time was right.

You best course of action is to do the repairs and corrections. Do you have anyone you trust that could do an in-depth review and analysis of your house on the other areas that are not yet corrected, it may surprise you what you find?

To be fair I look at many houses that do not have the windows flashed properly and they do not have problems yet but it is only a matter of time, in most cases.

[edwardh1]

on one of the 3 condo buildings the condo board hired an "English is not our first language crew" who installed the Hardie but decided to face nail it for some reason tho almost all HARDIE HERE IS BLIND NAILED. they over drove the nails 1/2 way through and seemed unaware that there is actually an adjustment on the compressor that can reduce the nail gun power.

you can't fix stupid as ron white says.

we love Hardie otherwise, my house has some, sons house etc, great stuff.