split foyer

[John Dirks Jr]

Split Foyer, built mid to late 70's , well/septic, all electric.

Any particular points of focus I need to be thinking of leading into a job like this?

[StevenT]

Hi John,

If you are referring to a "split level" home, inspection wise, I don't see what would change in the way you inspect it. Other than the number of steps between levels, it's just another house.

[Bill Kibbel]

Steven,

A split foyer is what folks south of us call a bi-level.

John,

Many of these have a bedroom or two on the semi-below grade level. The windows are often too small or too high from the floor for egress.

[StevenT]

Hi Bill,

I agree with what you say regarding the windows, but wouldn't windows in a bedroom that are too small/high for egress be an issue in any style of construction? Like in a finished basement of a home that was not split?

Although the "heads up" to be alert for this condition is helpful.

[hausdok]

Hi,

They're not really any different than doing any other house.

I grew up in upstate New York where folks would also call that a split-level or split-level "ranch". Out here Seattle way it's a "split" or "split-entry" home. If you call a house a ranch out here, folks look at you funny. Out here, they're "ramblers."

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[fqp25]

John,

They built a lot of them around here back in the late 60's -70's. I find a lot of moisture issues by the windows in the lower lever.

I inspected one a while ago where there was a significant amount of decay around the exterior of windows on one side of the house. All linked to a missing gutter, and all that water shedding off the roof splashed up around those bottom windows. On the wood casings on the interior, had very high moisture reading.

Frank

[Darren]

John,

Whether you do termite inspections or not, pay particular attention to the base of the wall between the lower bedroom & family room.

I have found several of these walls have termite damage.

Many of these types of houses have paneling in the family room; gently pry the baseboard away from the paneling and look for mud.

Another area is the mechanical room. It's usually in with the laundry room and has a door. Combustion air is a problem.

[John Dirks Jr]

Thanks for the tips everyone. BTW, I didn't mean to project that I would treat one house different than another. I do believe that certian designs may have their own more common problems.

I was reaching out to the more experienced to share what they know about this design and era. As you can see, the thread has been helpful.

I don't think combustion air will be a problem since it is an electric furnace....I think.

[Rob Amaral]

John: Have a repeatable/flexible inspection procedure and every inspection is done the same way----properly....

In regards to this type of house (we call them split-entries or 'raised ranches' around Boston), you need to get into that crawl space under the landing at the front. That is where WDIs tend to hit, water penetration rots structure behind the stoop, sill/rim damage, mice entry, etc. Often, the water service enters there as well. Sometimes you'll find that there is a breech in the garage at the fire-rated wall adjacent to that under-landing crawl space. Often, you'll find a basement fireplace and some kind of wacky heating-system/water heater vent connection to the base of the chimney from the heating/water heater area to the base of the chimney. Garage slabs tend to be the same elevation as the basement, etc. Ya-de-ya dah.. and good luck. Don't hesitate to email me about any concerns at anytime.

[Darren]

Originally posted by Rob Amaral

Garage slabs tend to be the same elevation as the basement, etc. Ya-de-ya dah.

What's wrong with that?

[John Dirks Jr]

Originally posted by Darren

Originally posted by Rob Amaral

Garage slabs tend to be the same elevation as the basement, etc. Ya-de-ya dah.

What's wrong with that?

Combustible gasses that gather at the garage floor can spill into the house. The garage floor level should always be at least 6 inches below the house floor level so the gasses wont spill in as much.

[hausdok]

Originally posted by AHI

Originally posted by Darren

Originally posted by Rob Amaral

Garage slabs tend to be the same elevation as the basement, etc. Ya-de-ya dah.

What's wrong with that?

Combustible gasses that gather at the garage floor can spill into the house. The garage floor level should always be at least 6 inches below the house floor level so the gasses wont spill in as much.

Maybe in your part of the country but around here they're the same level as the interior floors and they're still being built that way.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Jim Katen]

Originally posted by AHI

Originally posted by Darren

Originally posted by Rob Amaral

Garage slabs tend to be the same elevation as the basement, etc. Ya-de-ya dah.

What's wrong with that?

Combustible gasses that gather at the garage floor can spill into the house. The garage floor level should always be at least 6 inches below the house floor level so the gasses wont spill in as much.

I've heard that said many times, but I've never been able to find a reference for that in residential construction. Where did you hear about it?

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Darren]

In the 1999 BOCA code; "Section 407.5 Door Sills: The sills of all door openings between PRIVATE GARAGES and adjacent interior spaces shall be raised not less than 4 inches above the garage floor."

As far as I know, that has been eliminated from ANY IRC book.

Hopefully, they're still not teaching that in HI school.

[John Dirks Jr]

I probably heard it in HI school. Gasoline fumes are heavier than air so they sink to the floor. The elevation difference is to help prevent the spillage of fumes into the house.

Even if standards have changed, it's common sense to be aware of the situation and maybe convey a bit of information on it. Vehicles with leaks,stored gasoline containers, lawn equipment and spillage.

You don't have to be an alarmist to point out facts that can be help your clients understand risks.

[Darren]

John,

If you 'Point this out' to your clients, what is your recommendation?

Don't park the car in the garage?

Don't store your mower or gas in the garage?

Build a curb at the door?

Let's say you tell your client about your concern of a lack of a 'step-up' into the house. Your client walks away from the deal; how can you justify to the seller what you said is correct?

[inspect4u]

All I can find in the IRC is that garage floors must be sloped towards a drain or the main vehicle entry doorway.

Mike M

[Jim Katen]

Originally posted by Darren

In the 1999 BOCA code; "Section 407.5 Door Sills: The sills of all door openings between PRIVATE GARAGES and adjacent interior spaces shall be raised not less than 4 inches above the garage floor."

As far as I know, that has been eliminated from ANY IRC book.

Hopefully, they're still not teaching that in HI school.

Thanks. It never made it into CABO or the IRC.

In re-reading some of the older CABO books, they seemed to have been concerned with water entry between the garage and the house. I wonder if the 4" thing was intended to keep water out of the house.

It's not nearly tall enough to stop gasoline fumes.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[hausdok]

John,

If I were you, I'd classify it as inspectorlore and purge it from any prepared report text. If it were a valid concern, don't you think that the NFPA would be all over it and would have pushed it through as a part of every code?

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Brandon Chew]

TIJ's version of Mythbusters in action. Gotta love it!

John - check the weatherstripping around the door and at the threshold between the house and the garage. If it is missing or damaged, recommend it be fixed to save energy and to keep the fumes that you are concerned about, outside the house.

FYI - we call those houses a "raised ranch" around here.

[hausdok]

Hi Brandon,

I just sent an email to Mike Holt in the hopes of busting another myth that you've been taking part in on IN. The only thing is, at this point, I'm so confused that I'm no longer sure what the argument, or the myth, is. Oh well, that's for another thread on another day when I can post the answer, if I get one.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[John Dirks Jr]

This one is actually above house floor level but if you all say so, maybe I'll let it go and not write about it.

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[John Dirks Jr]

This one also has the garage door opener on GFI. Is it true that NEC now requires GFI for garage door opener outlets?

[hausdok]

https://www.inspectorsjournal.com/forum ... ORUM_ID=42

Its in there. Look for the 2008 code changes.

OT - OF!!!

M.

[Jim Katen]

Originally posted by AHI

This one also has the garage door opener on GFI. Is it true that NEC now requires GFI for garage door opener outlets?

Not exactly but, practically, yes.

For some time now, all 120-volt, 15- and 20-amp receptacles in garages have been required to have GFCI protection. There have been two exceptions to this requirement. The first was for receptacles that are not readily accessible. (That would include most ceiling receptacles.) The second exception was for receptacles that are behind big heavy appliances.

In the 2008 code, these exceptions are gone.

- Jim Katen, Oregon