agreement

[John Dirks Jr]

Whats the best way to handle the "signing" of the agreement if you cant meet in person prior to the inspection?

[Bill Kibbel]

Originally posted by AHI

Whats the best way to handle the "signing" of the agreement if you cant meet in person prior to the inspection?

We E-mail an agreement to everyone. If they can't attend, they scan and e-mail it back or fax it.

[John Dirks Jr]

Is it important for the "date" listed in the agreement to match the scheduled date of the inspection?

[Jim Katen]

Originally posted by AHI

Whats the best way to handle the "signing" of the agreement if you cant meet in person prior to the inspection?

E-mail the agreement and the standards of practice as soon as you book the inspection along with an introductory letter.

Ask them to read it and, if they agree with the terms, to fax it to you.

I thought everyone did this?

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Erby]

The date on the agreement should be before or on the inspection date. Kinda useless to tell them the rules after the game has been played. Don't think a judge would look kindly on that.

For those not attending, I ask them to download it from my website, print it out, sign it, and fax (or scan and e-mail) it back to me. For those who fax it back to me, I scan it to a PDF and then attach it to the report.

For those attending, I have it uploaded to my website. I ask them to review it on the website and have them sign it on my tablet PC at the inspection and print it to a PDF for attachment to the report.

For those who don't have internet, I'll fax it to them so they can complete it and sign it back to me.

A couple of times, I've had to fax it to a local (to the customer) bank or real estate office or library or travel office or similar place (after the customer made arrangements) where they could get it, complete it and fax it back.

No signed agreement = no inspection

No paymnet = no report

I usually collect up front.

[davidlord]

I haven't ask anyone to sign an inspection agreement in about 7 years. I include an agreement at the front of the report that basically says you agree to the terms of the agreement by using the report.

Since I email 99.9% of my reports I really want to set it up so that prior to opening the report one would have to click on the "I agree" button (like you have to do on most software) to open the report but I just haven't done it yet.

I personally think that inspection agreements are useless. If you conduct a pathetic inspection and produce a pathetic report the inspection agreement won't save you. Do your job correctly and there won't be any problems.

I know this thought process is outside the norm but it works for me.

[allspec33351]

I do not have clients sign a preinspection agreement. The first page of my report tells my client what they can expect from the report.

The decision for the most part to sue an inspector is based on the inspection and not on the agreement.

mlc

[Scottpat]

Originally posted by Jim Katen

Originally posted by AHI

Whats the best way to handle the "signing" of the agreement if you cant meet in person prior to the inspection?

E-mail the agreement and the standards of practice as soon as you book the inspection along with an introductory letter.

Ask them to read it and, if they agree with the terms, to fax it to you.

I thought everyone did this?

- Jim Katen, Oregon

You would be surprised with just how many don't even use agreements/contracts. I have heard excuses like; I just don't have the time; I trust everyone so they should trust me; My contract is a handshake; I don't want to scare anyone off; Contracts are a waste of time, they don't keep you from getting sued!

I can't understand why anyone would do an inspection without one.

[John Dirks Jr]

There's no way I plan to do an inspection without a signed agreement up front.

[allspec33351]

"I can't understand why anyone would do an inspection without one."

Well if I don't have an agreement what is a client going to sue you for?

A bad inspection; well you should be sued for that.

If you have an agreement it is a for the most part a one sided contract so if it is too onerous the court will not like that.

In your contract you agree to do this and that and if you don't do it you can be sued. If you have no contract and go above the acceptable area practices you should be fine.

All and all I've done many inspections for lawyers and for the most part they believe that agreement are not worth the paper they are written on and your chances of getting sued are less likely if you don't have a preinspection agreement.

mlc

I am no lawyer and I am not giving legal advice. Please consult a real licensed lawyer for real advice.

[John Dirks Jr]

mlc,

What kind of licensing or regulations to they have for home inspectors in Florida?

[hausdok]

Hi,

I've used a PIA for nearly 12 years. I have lots of clients who are attorneys; some work for some of the largest and most prestigious lawfirms on the planet, some have their own one-man shops. To a man (woman), they've all kind of chuckled at the PIA and signed it without reading it. One memorable fellow said, "Sure Mike, I'll sign it; it's nothing but a small speed bump anyway." Since I've never even had to sit down to arbitration in all that time, I guess I'll won't know how effective/ineffective my PIA is until I finally land in a courtroom. I figure that if I keep inspecting the way I've been inspecting that's not going to be anytime soon.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Brian G]

I'd gladly do without one, but all the E & O carriers demand it (or you aren't covered for that job). I think the legal mumbo-jumbo is near worthless when it gets down to it. Nobody has ever threatened to sue me but a few angry sellers, and as long as my work is accurate and well written they got nothing. Sure, I've made a few mistakes, but I made them right without the help of a court of law or E & O. Those customers still like me, still recommend me to others, and will call me again if they move.

Contract-schmontract. If you get a crazy person who's determine to sue you, winning is gonna be about your report, not your contract.

Brian G.

Hoping to Never Win the Crazy Client Lottery [:-boggled[:-wiltel]

[davidlord]

To answer AHI's question Florida has no licensing at the moment. It's scheduled for 09/10 (I forget which) but it's useless. The real estate decline has eliminated a good percentage of the fly by nighters.

[Jim Katen]

Originally posted by Brian G

I'd gladly do without one, but all the E & O carriers demand it (or you aren't covered for that job). I think the legal mumbo-jumbo is near worthless when it gets down to it. Nobody has ever threatened to sue me but a few angry sellers, and as long as my work is accurate and well written they got nothing. Sure, I've made a few mistakes, but I made them right without the help of a court of law or E & O. Those customers still like me, still recommend me to others, and will call me again if they move.

Contract-schmontract. If you get a crazy person who's determine to sue you, winning is gonna be about your report, not your contract.

Brian G.

Hoping to Never Win the Crazy Client Lottery [:-boggled[:-wiltel]

In Oregon, I can be fined up to $5,000 for delivering a report without a signed contract in hand first.

Also, the Oregon CCB administrative hearing judges uniformly uphold the limitation of liability clauses in the contract.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Brian G]

Originally posted by Jim Katen

In Oregon, I can be fined up to $5,000 for delivering a report without a signed contract in hand first.

That seems like an odd law. Are there other fields where they fine people simply for doing business without a contract?

Also, the Oregon CCB administrative hearing judges uniformly uphold the limitation of liability clauses in the contract.

The state appeals court slapped them down here, in the only case I know of directly on point.

The question of legally limiting liability is a tricky one. On one hand, it seems outrageous that a crooked or incompetent HI could cost a client tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars, then toss back a check for the relatively small original fee and walk away; on the other hand, it's certainly not fair for an honest HI to recieve a relatively small fee, yet be held liable for tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars, as if he had conducted a technically exhaustive inspection. I can't say I have a good answer to that dilemma.

Brian G.

Solomon, Wherefore Art Thou? [:-boggled

[Jim Katen]

Originally posted by Brian G

Originally posted by Jim Katen

In Oregon, I can be fined up to $5,000 for delivering a report without a signed contract in hand first.

That seems like an odd law. Are there other fields where they fine people simply for doing business without a contract?

In Oregon, contractors.

. . . The question of legally limiting liability is a tricky one. On one hand, it seems outrageous that a crooked or incompetent HI could cost a client tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars, then toss back a check for the relatively small original fee and walk away; on the other hand, it's certainly not fair for an honest HI to recieve a relatively small fee, yet be held liable for tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars, as if he had conducted a technically exhaustive inspection. I can't say I have a good answer to that dilemma.

Brian G.

Solomon, Wherefore Art Thou?[/navy] [:-boggled

Yes. It's a dilemma. (Hey, there are two "m"s in dilemma. I never knew that. )

Around here, if the dispute is handled by the CCB's dispute resolution process, the LoL will almost certainly be upheld. If, however, it goes the route of a full-blown trial, the judge can pick & choose from precedents. Some let the LoL stand, others strike it down.

The plaintiff has a greater chance of having the LoL thrown out in a full trial, but it will cost him more to get there. It's a crap shoot.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Bain]

I don't know about other states, but Kentucky is a "right to sue" state, so signed inspection agreements aren't terribly strong weapons to have stored in one's arsenal.

An attorney I know compared signing an inspection agreement with signing a release before you hop onto a theme-park roller coaster. Say you sign the release, the roller coaster zooms down the track, derails, and breaks your back.

Can you sue the theme park? You betcha. Even though you signed a release, there's an inherent reasonable expectation that the theme-park maintains its roller coaster and knows how to operate that roller coaster. It's reasonable to expect the roller coaster to be safe to ride on.

Why'd the roller coaster derail? Should the theme park have maintained better inspection methods to prevent the coaster from derailing? There's your lawsuit, and straight you go into discovery to determine whether the theme park was remiss and therefore responsible for your broken back.

Same thing with a home inspection. Even though a buyer signs an agreement, he has a reasonable expectation that the inspector is competent and isn't going to miss some egregious flub.

That's the way it is here, anyhow.

[Brian G]

I guess this is just the tightrope we walk to do this job. Get a signed agreement if there's a chance it could help, then go out and do a great job and make them love you, so you won't need the agreement. [8]

Brian G.

Pass the Unicycle and the Balancing Pole [:-clown]

[John Dirks Jr]

Originally posted by Brian G

I guess this is just the tightrope we walk to do this job. Get a signed agreement if there's a chance it could help, then go out and do a great job and make them love you, so you won't need the agreement. [8]

Brian G.

Pass the Unicycle and the Balancing Pole [:-clown]

Totally agreed. The agreement is an absolute last ditch resource to save from something worse. I do apologize to my clients for all the legal language and assure them that stuff wont be riddled throughout the report as it is in many others reports.