Federal Pacific Panel

[jodil]

This mornings inpsection turned up this Federal Pacific main panel. There was two GFCI breakers inside that did not trip when I tested at the outlets (I read in an independant article that was one of the problems with these panels, non tripping breakers.) There were a coupld of other issues as well.

My question is:

Are all Federal Pacific panels defective? If yes, how do I report this? Do I refer to some recall of some sort, or other verbage suggested?

Thanks for your answers!

Image Insert:

178.74 KB

[hausdok]

Hi Jodi,

This has been discussed many dozens of times over the years. If you do an advanced search for "FPE" you'll find that answered many, many times.

Here're some of the more recent discussions.

https://www.inspectorsjournal.com/forum ... hTerms=FPE

https://www.inspectorsjournal.com/forum ... hTerms=FPE

https://www.inspectorsjournal.com/forum ... hTerms=FPE

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[jodil]

Thanks Mike,

Sorry, I never think to search before I post. Ill start doing that more.

I found this reporting verbage:

*** Safety Warning*** I have observed a Federal Pacific Electric "Stab-Lok" service panel in the house. This panel is a latent fire hazard: it's circuit breakers may fail to trip in response to an overcurrent or a short circuit. Failure of a circuit breaker to trip can result in a fire, property damage, or personal injury. A circuit breaker that may not trip does not afford the protection that is intended and required. Simply replacing the circuit breakers is not a reliable repair. The panel should be replaced, and significant expense may be involved. Additional information about the fire and shock hazards associated with this equipment can be read on the internet at http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpepanel.htm

[Les]

Jodi, read everything Mike O posted. Establish your expertise and begin inspecting and reporting as if you are the expert. That is what they are paying you for - expertise. I seldom use the word "recall" for any component. In the Fed Pac instance, the word recall is wrong as an explaination as to why they should be replaced. I frequently just write or tell folks they are junk, replace, and if you don't like it do your own research.

This Fed Pacific war has been fought for twenty years, so it is unlikely you will take any grief from anyone other than electricians. Ask them to refute your opinion in writing.

I would like to see newer inspectors develope a sense of expertise based on education and apprenticeship. However, there is more junk science out there than good stuff for us to learn. Without any doubt this board is the most educational of any I know of. (see Bonnie ending a sentence with "of".)

[Chad Fabry]

Hi Jodi,

I made a few changes to be helpful, not critical.

Safety Warning*** I have observed There is a Federal Pacific Electric "Stab-Lok" service panel in the house. This panel is a latent fire hazard: it's its circuit breakers may fail to trip in response to an overcurrent or a short circuit.when necessary. Failure of a circuit breaker to trip can result in a fire, property damage, or personal injury. A circuit breaker that may not trip isn't dependable does not afford provide the protection that is intended and required. Simply Replacing the circuit breakers is not a reliable repair. The panel should be replaced, and significant expense may be involved. Additional information about the fire and shock hazards associated with this equipment can be read on the internet at http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpepanel.htm

[Les]

Originally posted by jodil

Thanks Mike,

Sorry, I never think to search before I post. Ill start doing that more.

I found this reporting verbage:

*** Safety Warning*** I have observed a Federal Pacific Electric "Stab-Lok" service panel in the house. This panel is a latent fire hazard: it's circuit breakers may fail to trip in response to an overcurrent or a short circuit. Failure of a circuit breaker to trip can result in a fire, property damage, or personal injury. A circuit breaker that may not trip does not afford the protection that is intended and required. Simply replacing the circuit breakers is not a reliable repair. The panel should be replaced, and significant expense may be involved. Additional information about the fire and shock hazards associated with this equipment can be read on the internet at http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpepanel.htm

Jodi, we posted at the same time.

I know Dan and he is a super guy, but this para is crap! For starters are you observing or inspecting? Get rid of all the extra crap like replacing the breakers, fire hazard from not tripping,etc and make it one or two sentences with dan's link, or any other link.

Then, you re-read and understand the problem is not a single thing, rather many issues including how the breaker connects to the busssssssssss. The extra s's are for Mike O. Find an old Fed Pac panel and tinker with it and you will understand more about them than most experienced inspectors! Read everything you can from Douglas Hansen (always kneel when you see him) and you will be on your way to being a genuine sparky!

[jodil]

Thank you for the info Les and Chad. I understand your revisions of the paragraph I pasted from another website. And yes, Les I agree that a new inspector must develop their own writing and reporting skills. But in cases such as these, I honestly dont know enough about the issue to even report it. I dont know if FPE's are recalled, not up to a particular code (not that I wouldve put that in a report anyway, just using as an example), just have a bad rep. in general...etc.

Thank you for your good advice

[Les]

no recall to my knowledge.

You are doing good, and it takes time to learn some of this stuff. And you will learn some stuff that is just plain wrong, so always take it with a grain of salt!

I can vouch for many on this board regarding their expertise. There are none better. Listen to Chad F, he really has a good balance of knowledge and personality. Me? I got the knowledge, but my personality sucks!!!

[Scottpat]

Be glad you are in ND, if you were in KY you can't not say anything bad about an FPE panel! Home inspectors are banned by a new "Rule" to their license law that forbids them to say that an FPE is bad unless it has signs of it being bad. Only an electrician can say they are good or bad.

[Les]

Warning - Thread drift. id="black">

The photo is from a water heater I looked at for another inspector today. He could not adequately explain what was going on and what to do about it. I did not have to write anything, just talk to client and explain what the liquid was, it's negative effects, what the cause was and what to do.

I guess I could have gone into a big long explaination about combustion of natural gas and the byproducts, flue venting, flue liners, princlples of water heaters, gripe about Big Box store installations, expound about Whirlpool Water heaters, etc. I was there abt 10minutes and told them the liquid was not water, water heater must be replaced, do not occupy house until repair/replacement of water heater and furnace flue, including flue liner and the flue is obstructed by a green frog. Actually, all that is true because I really do not know what is obstructing flue!

No, it was not one of our inspectors and no I did not charge the other inspector. I actually admire the fact he had the guts to call me and ask a favor.

Image Insert:

84.74 KB

Image Insert:

97.72 KB

Image Insert:

95.71 KB

My point is keep it simple and direct. Somewhere between Mike O's 104words and my 16words. Learn what is factual but you don't always have to write everything you know.

[Brian G]

Originally posted by Chad Fabry

I made a few changes to be helpful, not critical.

Safety Warning*** I have observed There is a Federal Pacific Electric "Stab-Lok" service panel in the house. This panel is a latent fire hazard: it's its circuit breakers may fail to trip in response to an overcurrent or a short circuit.when necessary. Failure of a circuit breaker to trip can result in a fire, property damage, or personal injury. A circuit breaker that may not trip isn't dependable does not afford provide the protection that is intended and required. Simply Replacing the circuit breakers is not a reliable repair. The panel should be replaced, and significant expense may be involved. Additional information about the fire and shock hazards associated with this equipment can be read on the internet at http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpepanel.htm

Nicely done. [:-thumbu]

Brian G.

Shorter and Straighter, but Still Plenty [:-graduat