randynavarro Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 This is an electric furnace with a 50 amp breaker / disconnect. Is this too obvious? The breaker is saying it can't accept this many wires, correct? And if not, what is the solution? Image Insert: 28.93 KB Image Insert: 27.16 KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Moore Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 Seem too easy Randy? I see 1 #2-#14 OR 2 #6-#14, I don't see where it says anywhere 3 or 4 of anything. Plus, you have strands at both lugs that aren't trapped. The solution, assuming all the wires are needed at the furnace, may be to connect them all first and then pigtail to the breaker...I stress may because obviously something is hooked up in an abnormal manner. I think the best solution is to call it wrong and recommend an electrician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randynavarro Posted March 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 Oh, and to be clear -- this breaker is the disconnect inside the furnace cabinet, not at the main panel. Yes, Richard, it seems obvious, but I was thinking I might also be missing something about the fact it's inside the cabinet or some other silly standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Moore Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 "Oh, and to be clear -- this breaker is the disconnect inside the furnace cabinet, not at the main panel." Yeah, I got that. I don't see how that would overcome the "listing", especially as it doesn't look like all the wires actually fit that well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inspector57 Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Is this the field connected terminals or the factory connected? If on the factory side I could see letting it slide since those appear to be fine stranded wire, not solid. But if on the field side, something is not right, the field connected supply terminals should not be feeding anything else, the disconnect is not going to disconnect service like you would expect. It ain't right, get a sparky to fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Originally posted by randynavarro This is an electric furnace with a 50 amp breaker / disconnect. Is this too obvious? The breaker is saying it can't accept this many wires, correct? And if not, what is the solution? Believe it or not, it's ok. The entire furnace assembly is UL listed, including this unconventional use of the breaker. They can get away with this because the connection is made in a controlled environment. The method of assembly is part of the QC process. Don't worry about it. - Jim Katen, Oregon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randynavarro Posted March 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Believe it or not, it's ok. The entire furnace assembly is UL listed, including this unconventional use of the breaker. They can get away with this because the connection is made in a controlled environment. The method of assembly is part of the QC process. Don't worry about it. - Jim Katen, Oregon Wow. Who woulda thunk? I knew there was something obvious I wasn't aware of. Jim K., where does a guy learn information like that, other than places like TIJ and your wonderful brain and experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randynavarro Posted March 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Originally posted by inspector57 Is this the field connected terminals or the factory connected? If on the factory side I could see letting it slide since those appear to be fine stranded wire, not solid. But if on the field side, something is not right, the field connected supply terminals should not be feeding anything else, the disconnect is not going to disconnect service like you would expect. It ain't right, get a sparky to fix it. Jim L.: How do I tell which is factory side and field side? Is factory side the "line-in" side of the breaker and field side the "line-out" side? As Jim K. has already responded in this particular set-up, he mentions it's ok. (By the way Jim K -- how do you know if the "connection was made in a controlled environment") If it wasn't ok because the connections were made up in the field, what is the solution? Gettin' a crash course in electric furnace wiring -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Moore Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Originally posted by Jim Katen Believe it or not, it's ok. The entire furnace assembly is UL listed, including this unconventional use of the breaker. They can get away with this because the connection is made in a controlled environment. The method of assembly is part of the QC process. Don't worry about it. - Jim Katen, Oregon OK...I can buy that and I trust Jim's opinions (although I still don't like the loose strands). Still, it kind of makes our jobs a little "fuzzy" when something like Randy's seemingly clear labelling contradicts the actual conditions. I don't see a lot of electric furnaces, but it wouldn't surprise me to find I might have previously ignored similar wiring due to not being as sharp-eyed as Randy. So Randy...good spot and excellent question. I be a little more ejumakated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian G Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 I'm sure Jim is correct, but that's still a poor way to connect all those wires to a breaker. I've seen many furnaces with a more specialized breaker, having a set of male slide terminals sticking out instead of a lug. Individual wires are connected to the individual male terminals; much better, but certainly not required. Brian G. It Is What It Is [8] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Chew Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Is factory side the "line-in" side of the breaker and field side the "line-out" side? The Jims can confirm, but I think you have that reversed. The factory will make the connections on the line-out side. The load is connected to the unit in the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Originally posted by randynavarro Originally posted by inspector57 Is this the field connected terminals or the factory connected? If on the factory side I could see letting it slide since those appear to be fine stranded wire, not solid. But if on the field side, something is not right, the field connected supply terminals should not be feeding anything else, the disconnect is not going to disconnect service like you would expect. It ain't right, get a sparky to fix it. Jim L.: How do I tell which is factory side and field side? Is factory side the "line-in" side of the breaker and field side the "line-out" side? As Jim K. has already responded in this particular set-up, he mentions it's ok. (By the way Jim K -- how do you know if the "connection was made in a controlled environment") If it wasn't ok because the connections were made up in the field, what is the solution? Gettin' a crash course in electric furnace wiring -- Randy, If you look at the wiring diagram on the cover of the unit. The factory wire will be a solid line with the color of the wire. The field wiring will be dashed lines. Most of the time the field wiring is the power supply to the unit and the thermostat wiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 Originally posted by Brandon Chew Is factory side the "line-in" side of the breaker and field side the "line-out" side? The Jims can confirm, but I think you have that reversed. The factory will make the connections on the line-out side. The load is connected to the unit in the field. Brandon is right. The installer makes the connections at the line side of the breaker. The load-side connections are made at the factory. - Jim Katen, Oregon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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