EPDM Roofing?

[Mark P]

Hi,

In my neck of the woods asphalt rules the roofing world and I have little opportunity to see other types of roofing.

Is this EDPM or is there a better nomenclature?

Other then looking for holes, tears, blistering, ponding what should I be looking for?

What do you tell your customers about these type of roofs? I've read they last 40 years and should be cleaned of debris.

Thanks

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[Scottpat]

EPDM looks the similar to a rubber innertube for a tire. In the picture it almost looks like it has reinforcing fibers or strands in it. Might be a type or brand of PVC roofing membrane.

[Mark P]

Well shoot, I don't know what to call it except rubber roof - and I'd like to be more specific. I've got all day to write the report so hopefully someone will be able to help ID it. I'll continue to search the net.

thanks

[hausdok]

Hi,

Yeah, it looks like Hypalon or something like that. Not EPDM.

OT - OF!!!

M.

[Les]

Mark,

I would not call it a rubber roof. Even if I know exactly what it is, I typically refer to them as membrane (type) material. Not that I am bashful, just there really is many kinds of sheet material.

I poked around your photos as much as my skill set allows and only would question wheather I'm seeing substrate washers in the first photo. If the material is over foam board or ridgid insulation board, then it may be edpm (generic), but I would only report membrane and typical installation details.

[exploreparadise2]

I'll chime in and say the roofing membrane is PVC. The grid pattern of the fiberglass mat is visible in the second photo. EPDM isn't reinforced with a base mat. Having the the reinforcing fibers is a good thing. Early examples of PVC weren't reinforced and tore easily.

[msteger]

Originally posted by AHIS

Hi,

In my neck of the woods asphalt rules the roofing world and I have little opportunity to see other types of roofing.

Is this EDPM or is there a better nomenclature?

Other then looking for holes, tears, blistering, ponding what should I be looking for?

What do you tell your customers about these type of roofs? I've read they last 40 years and should be cleaned of debris.

Thanks

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Also, most EPDM membranes I've seen have EPDM written right on it, like EPDM 60 would be a .060 EPDM roof.

[Jim Katen]

Originally posted by AHIS

Hi,

In my neck of the woods asphalt rules the roofing world and I have little opportunity to see other types of roofing.

Is this EDPM or is there a better nomenclature?

Other then looking for holes, tears, blistering, ponding what should I be looking for?

What do you tell your customers about these type of roofs? I've read they last 40 years and should be cleaned of debris.

Thanks

That is certainly not EPDM. (Though EPDM does come in white.)

I agree with Blair, it's some version of PVC. In particular, I'd guess that it's DuroLast. If it is, look for any pictures you have of the seams. On a DuroLast roof, you'll see heat welded seams that are embossed with the letters D & L with the L superimposed over the D. Next to the letters, you'll see a date.

PVC membranes can be heat welded or solvent welded, but mastic has no place on them. I looks like someone's applied mastic to the parapet in the second photo.

I also see no counterflashing at the chimneys.

DuroLast roofs are very good. I don't know how long they'll last because I've never seen one that was worn out.

Tell the customer to have a DuroLast installer repair the mastic patches and provide proper counterflashing. After that, avoid foot traffic and keep debris off the roof. If the membrane is punctured, it's very easy to patch.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

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[randynavarro]

The fiber pattern looks like what I see on many torch down products. I don't know what the exact material or product is, though.

[Bill Kibbel]

It looks black with an applied silver coating. I've never seen a black PVC roof membrane.

I have seen several TPO sheets that were black. What was the seam spacing?

[kurt]

That's some gnarly ass detailing. No termination bars, no counterflashing, the gutter detail looks like crap, and all that membrane wrapped up over the parapet will condense moisture into the backside of the wall, hastening the demise of the parapet through freeze/thaw.

After that, I have no idea what kind of membrane it is. Looks black w/silver paint to me.

[Jim Katen]

Originally posted by kurt

. . . Looks black w/silver paint to me.

You & Kibbel are both nuts . . .

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[hausdok]

Hi,

It looks like some kind of white or light gray stuff that's got some black funk (algae) covering parts of it.

You & Kibbel are both nuts...

Well, I've never met Bill, so I can't say; but Kurt....?.....Oh yeah.

OT - OF!!!

M.

[kurt]

Originally posted by Jim Katen

You & Kibbel are both nuts . . .

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Well, yeah.... it's a prerequisite for the gig.

[:-paperba

[Bill Kibbel]

Originally posted by Jim Katen

Originally posted by kurt

. . . Looks black w/silver paint to me.

You & Kibbel are both nuts . . .

- Jim Katen, Oregon

I know were both nuts, but I'm not sure why you think so.

[Jim Katen]

Originally posted by inspecthistoric

I know were both nuts, but I'm not sure why you think so.

I see a white membrane with dirt and algae on it. In your blown-up picture, I see a section where the dirt's been rubbed off. It's probably all over Mark's pants or on his sleeve.

Also, if it had been painted there'd be paint all over the termination strips and the chimneys.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Mark P]

Originally posted by Jim Katen

Originally posted by inspecthistoric

I know were both nuts, but I'm not sure why you think so.

I see a white membrane with dirt and algae on it. In your blown-up picture, I see a section where the dirt's been rubbed off. It's probably all over Mark's pants or on his sleeve.

Also, if it had been painted there'd be paint all over the termination strips and the chimneys.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

It is definitely white with algae stuff on it.

[Mark P]

Thanks everyone for the comments. I just reported it as a membrane roof covering.

For my own benefit I still want to learn more about it. I did not see the DL logo on the seams Jim. But that is a good lead and I've visited the Duro-Last web site and have requested a sample of their product.

I did note the lack of counter flashing, but did not consider the effect the membrane would have on the brick parapet, thanks Kurt. The house needs the TLC of a mason anyway because it was built in 1900 and has a lot of spalling bricks in the basement and tuck-pointing needed all over. The outside right wall looks like a body builders ab muscles from all the movement. But that is another story.

There was mastic on a few spots along the parapets. What I hate about it is you can’t see why it was applied. Was it a repair of a hole or just someone wanting to apply some preventive measure in a suspicious area? According to the owner it is only 5 years old. I’ll read up on heat and solvent welding of PVC type membrane.

The wet roof was slipperier then snot, with rain turning to sleet, so I only walked on a smaller 1st floor area that I accessed through a window. I did not trust my ladder in the extension mode and in the step ladder mode it leaned to the side to the point I had to have my customer hold it while I stood and held onto the gutter and snapped a bunch of photos. The point being I did not walk on the area you see in the pics.

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[kurt]

Originally posted by AHIS

I did note the lack of counter flashing, but did not consider the effect the membrane would have on the brick parapet, thanks Kurt.

Don't be surprised when few if any folks understand this phenomenon. It's not conventional wisdom, but it's true.

The house needs the TLC of a mason anyway because it was built in 1900 and has a lot of spalling bricks in the basement and tuck-pointing needed all over.

Tuckpointing is a 19th century decorative application to stone mortar joints. Whitish mortar is "tucked" into a groove in the joint.

You're talking about repointing and rebuilding.

There was mastic on a few spots along the parapets. What I hate about it is you can’t see why it was applied.

You don't have to see why. It's obvious by looking at the rest of the job. The installer is a moron, unfamiliar w/the most basic aspects of roof installation. Expect that whatever is under the mastic is garbage, demolished, or otherwise in need of rebuilding.

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[Bain]

Originally posted by kurt

Tuckpointing is a 19th century decorative application to stone mortar joints. Whitish mortar is "tucked" into a groove in the joint.

You're talking about repointing and rebuilding.

Hmm, I've been misspeaking for a long, long time. Thanks, as always, Kurt. I will steal from you and sound much brighter as a result.

[kurt]

The bastardization of "tuckpointing" can be traced right here to my fair City of Chicago (delineated in the paper "Tuckpointing History and Confusion" by Shellenbarger (sp?). Happened sometime around the early 20th century, and it stuck.

Everyone says it wrong. If you say repointing, be prepared to be "corrected".

[BornaRoofer]

It looks to me like a very poorly installed reinforced epdm roof that has been silver coated. No your not supposed to use asphalt coating on epdm but then again it looks like about the speed of that roofer.

Epdm is made with a scrim if you want it for mechanically attached systems or improved puncture resistance.

[Jayman931]

I know this thread is from more than a month ago. I would say this roofing system is either Fibertite or Dura-Last. PVC membranes have been known for lasting 40 years plus but alot has to do with the manufacturing process, quality of polymers and the ammount of fillers.

I am a Technical Sales Representative for Sarnafil a Division of Sika. We manufacture PVC roofing, water proofing membranes (for plaza decks, green roofs and tunnels) as well as solar integrated PVC membrane. If you have any further questions please don't hesitate to contact me or visit our website.

www.sarnafilus.com

schmidt.justin@us.sika.com

Thanks,

Justin

[Phillip]

Hi Justin,

Welcome to TIJ.

How about posting the installment guides and detail drawings for us?

[Mark P]

Originally posted by Jayman931

I know this thread is from more than a month ago. I would say this roofing system is either Fibertite or Dura-Last. PVC membranes have been known for lasting 40 years plus but alot has to do with the manufacturing process, quality of polymers and the ammount of fillers.

I am a Technical Sales Representative for Sarnafil a Division of Sika. We manufacture PVC roofing, water proofing membranes (for plaza decks, green roofs and tunnels) as well as solar integrated PVC membrane. If you have any further questions please don't hesitate to contact me or visit our website.

www.sarnafilus.com

schmidt.justin@us.sika.com

Thanks,

Justin

Hi Justin,

Your link did not work.

I did e-mail Duro-Last and they sent me a package of info and I agree that this is duro-last. I'm interested in learning as much as I can on other manufactures of PVC roofing so any info you can post or e-mail will be great.