Fireplace gas

[kurt]

Does a fireplace need a "secondary" gas shutoff upstream of the operators valve adjacent to the fireplace?

I checked G2420 and Chapter 24, and I can't find anything that says it's necessary, but something in my past makes me think there's supposed to be a valve upstream of the valve in the same room as the fireplace.

Am I nuts, or is the single shutoff in the same room as the appliance satisfactory?

[Bill Kibbel]

I can't think of any situation that would require a second(ary) valve.

Am I nuts, or is the single shutoff in the same room as the appliance satisfactory?

Most of us think you're nuts, but not because of the question.

[randynavarro]

I think National Fuel Gas Code talks about a secondary valve within 6' of fireplace for purposes of shutoff in case of emergency.

It's required in some jurisdictions around here.

Trouble is, my Fuel Gas code program isn't opening on my computer and I can't find the orginal disc.

Crap.

[hausdok]

Hi Kurt,

I remember seeing that discussion once on the ASHI board when I was still affiliated with ASHI, but I didn't believe it then and I don't believe it now. It is common to see gas fireplaces with both the large key-type shutoff in a floor or wall next to the fireplace, with a smaller shutoff valve underneath the fireplace before the connector, but I don't think two are required.

IFGC Section 409.5

Equipment shutoff valve. Each appliance shall be provided with a shutoff valve separate from the appliance. The shutoff valve shall be located in the same room as the appliance, not further than 6 feet (1829 mm) from the appliance, and shall be installed upstream from the union, connector or quick disconnect device it serves. Such shutoff valves shall be provided with access.

Exception: Shutoff valves for vented decorative appliances and decorative appliances for installation in vented fireplaces shall not be prohibited from being installed in an area remote from the appliance where such valves are provided with ready access. Such valves shall be permanently identified and shall serve no other equipment. Piping from the shutoff valve to within 3 ft. (914 mm) of the appliance connection shall be sized in accordance with section 402.

409.5.1 Shutoff valve in fireplace. Equipment shutoff valves located in the firebox of a fireplace shall be installed in accordance with the appliance manufacturer's instructions.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Eric B]

Mike,

As your quote states, the shut off valve should have free access. However, when the valve at the fireplace is installed in the adjacent wall and turned on by key, I doubt you could say that the valve is truly accessible. A second valve, usually underneath in the basement, would be accessible - though not in the same room.

I can't find song and verse on this but around here the second valve is always installed and most people know of it's purpose. I have yet to encounter resistance when I point out the second valve's absence or inaccessibility.

Kurt, you've got the People's Energy handbook (I lost mine), nothing in it about this?

[kurt]

Nope, nothing. I can't find anything that says there should be one in any of the codes.

You're probably thinking the same thing as me because I think there's a requirement for it in some of the NW 'burbs, no? I always see them so I've gotten thinking they should be there. The house yesterday didn't have one, or it was buried in drywall.

Thankfully, there's a lot more wrong w/the house; the gas valve, or lack thereof if it's required, is a small potato.

[ozofprev]

In NY it depends on the locals. In Rochester (Ogden) I was required to have a keyed valve within a few feet of the fireplace and the key had to be chained to the valve so it was readily available.

Here in Buffalo (Amherst) there is no such requirement.

[msteger]

Originally posted by kurt

Does a fireplace need a "secondary" gas shutoff upstream of the operators valve adjacent to the fireplace?

I checked G2420 and Chapter 24, and I can't find anything that says it's necessary, but something in my past makes me think there's supposed to be a valve upstream of the valve in the same room as the fireplace.

Am I nuts, or is the single shutoff in the same room as the appliance satisfactory?

Heck, today I had a gas fireplace with no gas valve in the same room. You'd have to run to the basement and find a ladder to reach the gas valve in the ceiling. Needless to say, I called it out and recommended having a valve installed at the appliance.

[jon_ran]

A quote from a fireplace expert on another board:

"NFPA 54 requires within 6 feet and "accessible"

IRC requires "accessible" within 6 feet. If over 6 feet, must meet 3 criteria:

readily accessible

serve only that one appliance

be labeled what it serves"

[msteger]

Thanks.

[Kyle Kubs]

Originally posted by jon_ran

A quote from a fireplace expert on another board:

"NFPA 54 requires within 6 feet and "accessible"

IRC requires "accessible" within 6 feet. If over 6 feet, must meet 3 criteria:

readily accessible

serve only that one appliance

be labeled what it serves"

Ok, now define "accessible"...

When I see one that has a shut off valve but it's in the firebox I recommend installing a second Dante' valve. (the keyed thingy). Cause if the regulator blows and the flames is out of control, who is going to stick their hand in the firebox to get at the valve in there?

On the other hand, Gas is for sissy's. Real men cut down trees, split logs and build fires that would melt one of those zero clearance pieces of crap.

But now that I think about it, the more sissy's using gas, the more wood for me[^]

[hausdok]

Originally posted by Kyle Kubs

When I see one that has a shut off valve but it's in the firebox I recommend installing a second Dante' valve. (the keyed thingy). Cause if the regulator blows and the flames is out of control, who is going to stick their hand in the firebox to get at the valve in there?

Has anyone ever heard of a regulator valve blowing? This is the first I've ever heard of it in more than 12 years at this gig.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike