sell some stuff?

[dwcatanese]

To me, the only time it is worthwhile to add pictures to the report is when the buyer cannot be present at the inspection. Otherwise, we make sure we show them every problem. If the buyer is out of town, our report allows us to add picures and e-mail the repor to the client, agent, or attorney if requested. As far as the attorney goes, at least in this area, 9 times out of 10 I think they only look at the summary page of the report. Plus, the client or realtor usually faxes the report to the attorney and the pictures don't transmit so well. That is why my summary page is very detailed and contains a list of all the problems that are included on the interior of the report; for instance: "the top sash of the north window in the master bedroom has a broken thermal seal." I've seen reports that use phrasing like, "1 or more windows have a broken thermal seal" but don't specifically give a location.

For me, it is important to have a report with a fully narrative summary. I just don't see how boilerplates can be detailed and specific enough. However, I have never tried a report with boilerplates, so it is probably wrong of me to pass judgement. I just like the flexibility the narrative summary of my report offers.

[randynavarro]

A report that describes the home, specifies its condition, lists its deficiencies and gives solid fact-based recommendations is a good report.

Are those what you produced 4 times a day?

If it does that whether its long or short, filled with pictures, or narrative or checklist then it is a good report.

I think this is the crux; a checklist report isn't good, in my opinion, as well as most of the active posters on this forum. A narrative with pictures is better if not best.

I could probably do 4 inspections a day but I wouldn't be able to produce 4 reports that would hold water with the folks here or in a courtroom.

The more we practice our craft the better we can do it

Well, I guess I'm just a screwball. The more I know, the better I get and the longer I'm taking. I'd like to get shorter but just can't figure it out yet.

[Chad Fabry]

For me, it is important to have a report with a fully narrative summary. I just don't see how boilerplates can be detailed and specific enough. However, I have never tried a report with boilerplates, so it is probably wrong of me to pass judgement. I just like the flexibility the narrative summary of my report offers.

Your approach is different than mine as well. I don't include a summary. The way I see it, if it was important enough for me to document the issue in the report then the client should read about the issue in its original context rather than as an isolated singularity in a summary.

In a summary you may document that there's a broken window seal on the upper sash in the northwest bedroom.

In the report you document that there's a broken window seal on the upper sash in the northwest bedroom and it's very likely that all the windows are likely to soon follow that trend because they're 30 years old.

Both style of reporting are accurate and truthful, but one style benefits the client and the other style...well, it doesn't.

A summary makes things better for the realtor and the attorney. As a rule they're not my client. I write the report to benefit the client.

[hausdok]

Hi Randy,

I guess we're both screwballs. The first job I did in 1996 took 4-1/2 hours. Today, they take about 3-1/2 to 4-1/2 hours. Never been sued - never been to arbitration. Guess I'm just inefficient as hell.

OT - OF!!!

M.

[dwcatanese]

In the report you document that there's a broken window seal on the upper sash in the northwest bedroom and it's very likely that all the windows are likely to soon follow that trend because they're 30 years old.id="blue">

Assuming the home is 30 years old, seals can break due to reasons other then age, why can't the above comment be written in the summary as well as in the interior?

Both style of reporting are accurate and truthful, but one style benefits the client and the other style...well, it doesn't. id="blue">

A summary makes things better for the realtor and the attorney. As a rule they're not my client. I write the report to benefit the client.

id="blue">

However, the buyer usually puts faith in the attorney to represent them, righly or wrongly so, and if by lumping the problems together in one place makes them clearer to the attorney then aren't you benefiting the client as well?

[hausdok]

Hi,

Chad, there are different kinds of summaries; there are summaries like you describe, where the summary report language is less alarming than what's in the actual report - then there are summary reports where the language is exactly the same.

My summary report is nothing but my narrative report with the descriptions and all of the fine print and non-essential stuff removed. The issues are, word-for-word, described exactly as they are in the full report. It cuts the report size down by about 40%.

I could do a summary report that had bulleted one-liners, but I can't understand why I'd want to create an entirely new document when I have everything already typed and done in the main report. I'm sure that some of the folks in the transaction would prefer to get it the other way - with the bare-bones comment, but, like you, I know that some folks won't read the entire thing anyway, so, in order to ensure clients are reading what is important to them and me - and not the reel-tours - I do it this way.

OT - OF!!!

M.

[Brian G]

Originally posted by Sal

If I gave the impression that my thinking is inflexible, then that was poor communication on my part.

These exchanges tend to to run the participants out on a limb, so I probably come off the same way. If I've given the impression I dislike ambition or money in general, and apparently I have, it's a mistaken impression. It's what one's ambition drives him to do in pursuit of money that often troubles me.

Then again, I admit to being deliberately inflexible in certain areas.

You mentioned an inspector in your area who you are highly critical of, yet your disregard seems to be centered on the fact that he does a great number of inspections. What is the quality of his work?

It's lousy, in my opinion. I first heard of him before I got into the business, when a friend used him for an inspection. After my friend bought and moved in, problems started turning up. My pal was pissed, but wouldn't sue. I've since heard similar complains and horror stories from about a dozen people who used him, mostly on their realtor's recommendation, of course.

As for the numbers, if you mean the "6 or 8 a day with no help", I absolutely find that repugnant. No one man can do that many inspections in one day without cheating his clients. No way.

I would like to know what is it specifically about how he inspects that makes him a bad inspector. Time, reports, onsite, offsite are part of the completion of the process and the delivery of our results. How is he as an inspector? Have you seen him work?

I haven't watched him in the field, but I had the pleasure of serving as an expert witness in a suit against him (settled early). I've seen two of his reports, inspected one property a year behind him, and talked to some former clients. What makes him bad? He runs fast and shallow in a grab for the cash, doesn't look out for his clients, and lives from the generousity of agents who know exactly how he works. Bad.

I don't associate being sued necessarily with bad work. The longer we are in this the more likely that is to occur.

True; nobody's perfect, so nobody's immune. Then there are also the nuts....

Being sued frequently, though, starts to look bad.

However, Brian, everything I know about you comes from the negatives you present. I would like to know some of the positives. What is "professionalism" to you? How do you present your reports? What is your background and experience? When you leave an inspection what makes you feel that you have accomplished what you have been paid to do? I think we can learn so much more from the positives than the negatives.

Thanks, but I'll take pity on the rest of the members and mercifully restrain myself from posting long about myself.

I know I have come late to this post, so if these are items you have already presented then I can understand your reluctance to rehash what you have already done.

Something like that.

Since you seem to have focused on my postings, I thought it might be helpful to know a little about your inspecting skills and techniques in deciding if your your comments are borne of experience or theory.

Some of both. We're just opposite DNA on the business side Sal. I'm prepared to leave it at that if you are.

Brian G.

As the Lawyer Once Said, "It's a Good Deal...Take It" [:-thumbu]

[charlieb]

This is a touchy area. 6 a day. Sure it can be done.

Why I've done a re-inspect (lets not go there in this discussion), two commercial inspections and four full inspections in a day and had the reports out same day.

As a norm no.

Let me change the statement above a little bit--

Why I've done a re-inspect (I left at 6:45 to do a new construction on the other side of town 45 min away. It was a short list),

two commercial inspections ( did the first one on the way to the re-inspect and the second on the way back. Did I mention these were draw inspections that about 45 min each. Oh yea, I filled out the reports the night before and inserted the photos as I sat down to a real fast burger. I set the FTP transfers to run before I pull out of the parking lot. I have the net on the laptop)

and four full inspections in a day ( The first was about 15 years old. It popped up as a "got to have it NOW" from an agent who will send me work. NO agents, no client just get it done. Did it all on site and set the report to send as I hit the road. By the way it was between the second draw and my home. The next three houses were all in a row, same builder less than a half mile from my house. I did the outsides first. It began to get dark as I finished the three attics and went to the interiors. If I remember the day I got home about 7:30)and

had the reports out same day. ( I do the report on site but put the photos in at home. To check myself I start at the beginning of the report and insert photos as I go down. I also can review my comments as I go. Then I review the photos one by one. Have to make sure EVERYTHING got into the report. Time to spell check and gent the report out.

It was a LONG draining day. Any man/woman who runs at that kind of pace had better be in much better shape than me. I felt it the next day. I do two a day. I will work in a third for If there is no other way for inspector Allen or me to do it at another time. Allen will not do three. To do the job right IMHO and allow the client the interaction they are paying for I have 5.5 hour window on an average home. Any time less than that I get to use for a decent lunch and run an errand or two. I had a 6500sf, with a crawl, irrigation and an apartment yesterday. Could have set it as an afternoon (big house - no way), mid am ( might work & I could do a little something first - naw still doesn't fell good) or a early AM. I got there at 7:15 and finished inputting the exterior and roof data by 10. LOTS of bells and whistle and Defects. Started the crawl at 4. At 5 I primed the irrigation pump and started running through the zones. Went home, did the usual review and photos. It went out at 8:30.

You have to know what your comfort zone is.

[Sal]

Originally posted by Brian G

Originally posted by Sal

If I gave the impression that my thinking is inflexible, then that was poor communication on my part.

These exchanges tend to to run the participants out on a limb, so I probably come off the same way. If I've given the impression I dislike ambition or money in general, and apparently I have, it's a mistaken impression. It's what one's ambition drives him to do in pursuit of money that often troubles me.

Then again, I admit to being deliberately inflexible in certain areas.

You mentioned an inspector in your area who you are highly critical of, yet your disregard seems to be centered on the fact that he does a great number of inspections. What is the quality of his work?

It's lousy, in my opinion. I first heard of him before I got into the business, when a friend used him for an inspection. After my friend bought and moved in, problems started turning up. My pal was pissed, but wouldn't sue. I've since heard similar complains and horror stories from about a dozen people who used him, mostly on their realtor's recommendation, of course.

As for the numbers, if you mean the "6 or 8 a day with no help", I absolutely find that repugnant. No one man can do that many inspections in one day without cheating his clients. No way.

I would like to know what is it specifically about how he inspects that makes him a bad inspector. Time, reports, onsite, offsite are part of the completion of the process and the delivery of our results. How is he as an inspector? Have you seen him work?

I haven't watched him in the field, but I had the pleasure of serving as an expert witness in a suit against him (settled early). I've seen two of his reports, inspected one property a year behind him, and talked to some former clients. What makes him bad? He runs fast and shallow in a grab for the cash, doesn't look out for his clients, and lives from the generousity of agents who know exactly how he works. Bad.

I don't associate being sued necessarily with bad work. The longer we are in this the more likely that is to occur.

True; nobody's perfect, so nobody's immune. Then there are also the nuts....

Being sued frequently, though, starts to look bad.

However, Brian, everything I know about you comes from the negatives you present. I would like to know some of the positives. What is "professionalism" to you? How do you present your reports? What is your background and experience? When you leave an inspection what makes you feel that you have accomplished what you have been paid to do? I think we can learn so much more from the positives than the negatives.

Thanks, but I'll take pity on the rest of the members and mercifully restrain myself from posting long about myself.

I know I have come late to this post, so if these are items you have already presented then I can understand your reluctance to rehash what you have already done.

Something like that.

Since you seem to have focused on my postings, I thought it might be helpful to know a little about your inspecting skills and techniques in deciding if your your comments are borne of experience or theory.

Some of both. We're just opposite DNA on the business side Sal. I'm prepared to leave it at that if you are.

Brian G.

As the Lawyer Once Said, "It's a Good Deal...Take It" [:-thumbu]

Absolutely, Brian. I appreciate your posting and let's leave it at that. I get the feeling from your postings that the bottom line for you, as it is for me, is the welfare of our clients and that should be the ultimate test as to an inspector's motivation. Without that and the results that attitude presents I know I would soon be out of business.

I think I originally was taken back by the questioning of my integrity that appeared to be occurring due to a disagreement with my methodolgy, since no one on here had ever seen me perform an inspection. I hope that was not the case. When I was first learning this business I made a lot of mistakes that cost my clients and which I stood up and paid for. I lost a lot of sleep questioning why I was in this business. But I realized, over time and through experience, that I am good at this because I care and that it would have been a mistake to quit, both for my clients and for myself. When I started to get overwhelmed with work, I bit the bullet, took on a partner and then 2. I lost money initially in order to better serve my clients, but turned that into a marketing feature. When I realized a realtor was cooking the translations to my Spanish clients, I made sure we all learned Spanish. That too became a marketing positive. Changes I made to better serve my clients and which initially cost me, have all turned into positives. (My marketing is divided into 5 parts and every day I market in some way. When I first started, I spent hours staring at the phone, praying for it to ring. It cost me $87,000 to get this business going and I refuse to go through that again. So every day I market, market and market). Every time I finish an inspection I ask myself if I have done all that I can to protect my client's interest and I don't leave until I can answer, "Yes" to that question.

I would be delighted to keep communicating with you, hoping to learn something at every turn of a phrase.

[hausdok]

I think I originally was taken back by the questioning of my integrity that appeared to be occurring due to a disagreement with my methodolgy, since no one on here had ever seen me perform an inspection.

Hi Sal,

If you're going to hang out here, you'll need to get used to the fact that folks on this site are often very direct with one another. This isn't an association's site controlled by a terms of use that's designed to make everybody feel warm and fuzzy; so nobody feels like they have to massage anyone's ego. I think that the folks that spend time here are here because they enjoy helping and learning from one another. Yeah, they have to put up with a long-winded dictator, who can be a dickhead and won't let them go at each other or spout off when they want to sometimes, but there isn't a better site in the business where one can avoid all of the glad-handing and self-congratulary crap and get simple straightforward information and help when necessary.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[John Dirks Jr]

The discourse is good for all of us. It keeps our minds working and reminds us not to focus entirely on narrow paths.

BTW, all the items I listed at the beginning of this thread have already sold. The new laptop is also in hand.

I wonder if anyone would be interested buying the HI software? It's a limited usage version but it still has at least 30 templates left on it. I paid $350 for it and I'll list it on ebay with the biding starting at $49 with no reserve, meaning that it could sell for as little as that. What do you think? The link below can explain the software.

http://www.knightssoftware.com/products ... ctmate.php

[ozofprev]

Well, while we're at it.

If any of you are using Carson's Home Reference Book for reporting, I have ten that you can have cheap! (Still in the box.)

My email is in my profile...

[kurt]

What is it w/the summary vs. "full report" approach?

What is all the stuff that is in the full report that isn't in a summary? If it's important enough to write down someplace, why isn't it a good idea to have that be a single place, identifying all the items they should be aware of, in a format that allows anyone reading the report to immediately get on the same page and idea as everyone else?

To whit, if someone asks me the time of day, I tell them what time it is. I don't explain how my watch works, how old the battery is, or why the stem adjustment is a little touchy.

[hausdok]

Hi Kurt,

I agree, but I've been asked many times by the reel-tours for a summary report with bulleted one liners. I won't do it. They either accept the summary report with the issues word-for-word the same as they are in the full report or they don't get anything.

No confusion here between what I said and what the summary says.

OT - OF!!!

M.

[kurt]

I also agree.

I do "bullet points", they're sequentially numbered, and they might be anything from a single line about a broken switch, to a page of single spaced narrative about crappy masonry accompanied by several photos. But, they're still points in a summary, not a long unbroken narrative from which folks have to extract information.

In fairness, I often explain "how my watch works", but in relatively tight language, and only done so the main point is comprehensible, i.e., "the heat exchanger is cracked; that's dangerous 'cuz carbon monoxide etc., etc....".

[Les]

I know Kurt M has given thought to reporting styles, as have I.

One of the problems with talking about these different styles is they must reflect your style of inspecting and your attitude. That is why some inspectors have a 75 page report; it is a reflection of their inspection style - lots of meaningless stuff.

My experiementation has shown the 3-4 page "executive summary" type report work well for me and my market. It would not work for most inspectors, but I work only with folks I know... I rarely do an inspection for a person that does not really know me or are family members of past clients.

I have stolen the comic book style report from Kurt M. I think Kurt is like me, in that, he has no hesitation in writing what ever style his clients needs and can actually use.

There is no right or wrong way except when the report becomes mostly CYA and crap about the process. Someday I am going to write a single sentence report and a single sentence invoice. "You watched me inspect the house today and it looks OK." Second sentence. "Send the check to xxxxxxxx"

[Sal]

The body of my report I consider my working notes. It is there that I fulfill the requirements the State (and ASHI) have imposed: items to be observed, described and qualified. From this I create a "summary" which specifies clearly and concisely those circumstances and conditions, I believe, the client is really looking for from me. This section is numbered to make the communication between my client and the attorney workable. I break this page into two parts: the first are those deficiencies that deal with the major systems as a whole; those that will make habitability difficult; and those that are safety concerns. The second part is the listing of minor items which I have discovered that, in the normal course of living, would typically be repaired or replaced. I try to keep this entire "summary" clear and concise so my client will fully understand the conditions of this home and allow him to proceed (or not) having the best information at his disposal. Years ago, as my reporting techniques were evolving, I surveyed a number of my clients as to what they wanted from me at their inspection, how my report reflected their wants and how I could give them what they were seeking. The above model was the final result. I made sure that my pre-inspection agreement also reflects not only what I am going to do in terms of my inspection but also how I will report on my findings. Every client I work for has the right, prior to the inspection, to reject what I have laid out. No one ever has. (In all honesty most never bother to read the pre-inspection; but that also is their choice).

[ozofprev]

When I started out, I followed what the best of the best had done. I used Intelligent Reporter and had great success with it.

In that reporting system, there are main sections for structural, basement, siding & trim, garage door, insulation and so on. They are easily found because there is a table of contents. Within each section are Major Repair, Minor Repair, Safety Concern, Maintenance, and Investigate Further items - along with ramifications of the problem and recommendations for what to do next. Pictures with arrows, circles, the occasional citation, and comments were sufficient to confirm the main text.

A summary is simple to produce and I found it very useful. The summary was the last page or two of the report and looked something like this, but generally with more items:

Safety Concern The electrical outlets along the kitchen counter are not ground fault protected.

Major Repair The rear basement wall is bowed horizontally at its middle by approximately two inches.

Minor Repair Chronic leakage from the upstairs shower has destroyed the gypsum ceiling in the downstairs laundry area.

The summary allowed the client/seller/lawyer to recognize quickly that there are x number of major repairs, y safety concerns and z minor repairs. They really liked it, so I kept doing it.

[kurt]

Originally posted by Les

I have stolen the comic book style report from Kurt M. I think Kurt is like me, in that, he has no hesitation in writing what ever style his clients needs and can actually use.

My attorney will be calling you in the morning.

I have three modules. Descriptions (all the SOP stuff/fluff), Concerns (sequentially numbered/bullet pointed narratives w/accompanying pics), and Photolog (the comic book, 3 pics to a page, each w/a paragraph of explanation).

I love my comic book. It's the best for home owner's associations. Folks ask for it. They don't want to read a 37 page narrative of heinous mangled language, most of which they don't understand, and don't want to understand. They want bullet points & pictures.

I have different print scripts for the type of report; I can print each section by itself, or any combination of the 3.

Very often, I use the Photolog as a "proof of job" document. There's no particular need to explain all that stuff I did & looked @ if there's pictures showing I was all over the roof, in the crawl, in the electrical panel, etc. I have the Descriptions module to meet SOP, but the Photolog is the best thing going. Each job photolog gets catalogued & archived.

I often think HI's would be more fulfilled if they'd take a creative writing class, learn to paint, write some poetry, build a boat (build a house?), or do something other than write HI reports to alleviate unfulfilled creative angst. It's part of that whole "who owns the inspection report?" thing, or worrying about copyrighting the report. Who cares? All HI reports are painfully boring records of technical minutae that only 1 or 2 people in the whole world cares about anyway.

While I'm thinking about it, how many HI's have ever built a house? Hardly any that I know. It's weird.

[Bain]

I've built a few, but in the price range I was relegated to, the competition from the mass-production behemoths was too much to overcome.

Kurt, I've been veering toward something like you described above. Any chance I could take a look at what you're doing?

bainpropinsp@juno.com

[Brian G]

I worked on a bunch, but only built one. I'm living in it, and with any luck at all I'll die in it. It was a great experience, though I could have done better on a number of things if I had done some HI work first.

I'd like to see the comic book style too, but I'm guessing it's bitch to email.

Brian G.

The Adventures of Mitenbuler Manid="size4"> [:-masked]

[kurt]

Yah, I know you're a builder. What other form of human could spin a water heater drain pan out of the ether?

Living in a house one has built for themselves is extra special. I've built a couple boats for myself, but never an entire house. I have renovated a half dozen homes for myself, including my current 90 year old Chicago bungalow.

The comic book isn't all that hard to email; some of them are <1mb. I'd put one up for the review, except I'd have to edit out a lot of stuff, and I haven't had the time.

[Brian G]

Hit me, Mit Man. No rush, just whenever.

brian@accuspecllc.com

Brian G.

Not Literally, Of Course [:-fight]

[Les]

In the early years I built many houses and a few homes. Kurt is right about the "feeling" of living in a house you have built for a home.

I once built one from four pine trees that I cut myself, helped saw the lumber and drove each nail, even the gypsum board. Did the well and septic by myself. Nothing fancy, but lived in it for 7years.

Back to the thread drift - Your report is the reflection of your work and your task for that inspection. I have done thousands of inspections that were mostly the same, then got a wild hair and started interacting with my clients at a more personal level and began sending them "technical" letters. For a couple of years I did a checklist narrative report with an addendum (executive summary), then started just writing them an informative letter with photos. It comes down to managing client expectations and providing them with info they can use.