sell some stuff?

[Sal]

When I saw the original posting on this topic I read of an inspector who had used one method of reporting at great expense and was switching to another, I am sure also at great expense. I simply wanted to share some ideas that I have developed and present maybe a different vision of what this business can be. My caution to the original author was simply to understand how he wanted his business to function in the future and that here were some ideas, humbly offered, to be considered.

I wasn't expecting to have each paragraph dissected and each sentence parsed, and I am not going to get into a specific point by point debate that seems so typical at these sites. There seems to be rampant intolerance for people who don't conduct their business as some inspectors believe they should. Rather than demonstrate their own business plan or recount their successful methodology they revert to insults ("toadie;" "rationalization"). I know I could gain a lot from Brian G if would tell us what he does to enhance his professionalism, how he markets his business, what successes and failures he has had, what kind of reporting and delivery system he uses. I am sure his system is right for him as mine is for me.

The one disturbing insight Brian presented was his belief that a law was needed to restrict the amount of daily business an inspector can do. Restrictions of trade, as such a law would be, are often the refuge of those who don't have the heart or the ability to compete. If we who perform a lot of inspections do such a bad job, why not let time and the marketplace weed us out, as it surely would. Could it be that after so many years and so many inspections, we are really good and efficient at what we do?

The one aspect I didn't take as an insult was the fact that today I put money first (I still instruct my students that their first goals should be the gaining of experience). This is my business and my livelihood and making money is my priority. If that is being un professional, then so be it I am unprofessional. (I thought the definition of a professional was one who worked for money) I have attended enough meetings, seminars, conferences and dinners with home inspectors and been forced to listen to how bad the market was or how they are too tough to get recommended or how the realtors hate them. These are often excuses for why they haven't the ability to get their businesses going. Often they are terrific technically, but don't understand the nature of this business and rather than expose themselves to the marketplace and develop business strategies that let people ( Not just realtors but investors, mortgage brokers, attorneys, home buyers, home sellers, community groups, people concerned about how safe their home is, what levels of mold and radon are present) view how good they are, they find it easier to complain and do nothing. I spent too many years honing my inspecting skills and developing my business strategies to apologize for the fact that I am good at many aspects of this business and making money is my reward for this.

One final note on this subject: we seem to be one of the few professions that believes the more experienced we become and the more technically proficient we are, the longer our job should take. There seems such a great emphasis on time rather than the delivery of a good product: a sound analysis of the homes our clients are buying. ( An inspector near us brings snacks and treats to his inspections for himself and his clients. At the two hour mark he stops and dines before moving into the second half of his inspection). If we state that we are doing a better job by looking at a roof for twenty minutes rather than ten then it stands to reason that looking at it for forty would be even better, or how about sixty or eighty. To equate time with quality negates experience and proficiency. This thinking does a disservice to young inspectors. Of course they should take a greater amount of time than an experienced inspector would. But their hope should be that with their own experience they will be also become more efficient.

I apologize to Brian G if I made this sound, at times, personal. It is not and I don't want it to be. I am sure he is or is going to be a terrific inspector. These forums are great tools for growth if used in a respectful manner. I thank Brian in a way for making me look at this a bit differently. In digesting his comments and reading many of the other forum posts, I think I am more of a home observer than a home inspector: I view how the home was constructed; I observe how the home operates; I look at the changes that have been made; and I visualize how the home will function when and if my buyers move in. Then I crystallize my findings, put them in a report, verbalize them to my client and collect my fee - all onsite. Maybe I will start a forum called TOJ and I will personally invite Brian G to be the first to join me at least as an honorary member.

I hope everyone has a safe and successful day. And please vote.

[Chad Fabry]

Sal,

Would you mind providing a sample of your report?

It's plain to see that you're an excellent communicator, a fast typist and friendly toward the idea of preserving the English language for future generations who speak Spanglish but reminisce about the 'good old days".

I'd like to see how you weave those skills and attributes into the report, quickly and efficiently, while still providing adequate observation, instruction and direction at the rate of four a day?

Heck, I can barely manage four cognitive thoughts a day.

[Phillip]

I have an inspector in my area that said he did 6 to 8 a day in the summer time. This was before he added an inspector to help him. Been doing it for 15 years. The realtors loves him. He fills out a check list and gives it to his secretory and/or wife to type up.

[randynavarro]

Sal,

Good thoughts. I appreciate them.

I'm with Chad, though. I'm reeeal curious what 4-a-day looks like.

To be honest, If I could figure a way to do that many, I'm all ears!!!

[ozofprev]

Sal, I agree with Chad - your Masters degree in English is working for you.

You do four inspections per day, run an HI school, a mold certification course and an online store? I'm impressed. Which pays better - home inspection, or home inspection/mold training?

For your reports, do you use the 8-page checklist/narrative that you sell online? To what are you referring when you write that you are a partner with, "one of the most prominent testing laboratories in America?"

[Sal]

Originally posted by randynavarro

Sal,

Good thoughts. I appreciate them.

I'm with Chad, though. I'm reeeal curious what 4-a-day looks like.

To be honest, If I could figure a way to do that many, I'm all ears!!!

I may have given the wrong impression. I said if I were structuring the business today I would have as my goal the ability, method and reporting system that would allow me to do 4 per day. That I would see as ideal. Physically four is too exhausting to do. I have done it when my back was to the wall. That is why I added a partner. When I teach my classes I always want my students to set their sights on the ideal rather than the base. Then when the goal may not be reached success would still be at hand.

[Richard Stanley]

I agree with Sal (mostly) and appreciate his contribution.

A few short years ago, I did 3 -4 per day. Now, at this stage of my life, I prefer only 1. When doing the 3 -4, I started at 9a and was never finished later than 8p. I work alone - no helper. I have never done a report on site and do not intend to. I am required to use a state mandated report. I have, over the years as most presumably do, developed a boiler plate that needs very little tweeking. This, alone, reduces the report writing time dramatically (point and click or drag). The time increased somewhat a few years ago when I started adding pictures. ( a little more point and click) Similiarly, the development of your personal mental images (experience and study) increase the speed of your ability to recognize defects. Pictures make a better and easier to under stand report. I do not offer defect correction information. Our real estate contract specifies who is to make repairs. ( I have good reason to doubt that anyone bothers to read that part) My reports average 14 pages. I include very few disclaimers, if any. - usually, only if I can't inspect an item. I, (I think), am very thorough. I get positive feedback and plenty of referrals. I do not furnish a summary. The report is a summary.

I am in agreement with much of Sals comments here. This is not rocket science and the tendency of many to "over report" is quite often to their detriment. If it is broke or damaged, say so. It doesn't need 3 pages to explain why or who should fix it or when, etc. Clients are not going to read it anyway. I have heard of reports of 50 - 60 pages in duration. - a waste of trees. I believe in conveying my findings in the most concise, yet understandable, method possible. I very seldom get a call asking what I meant by a report comment.

[Sal]

I appreciate your many kind comments. Gary asked some questions about the inspection business and the training and about the reports.

When I began 13 years ago I simply wanted to work at a job that allowed me to support my family, rely on my skills and provide for money into the future. (I had no pension) I came upon this by accident, went to Wisconsin for training and started this business. It has grown by leaps and bounds, and I have had a blast along the way. It took two years to get started with a lot of trial and error marketing. As it grew I kept seeing a vision as to where this could take me and made sure my report and its delivery kept pace.

When business exploded, and it did unreasonably so for a lot of us, I too was doing 6 per day, 8Am to 8PM in the summer. At that point my older son joined me; two years later when we both were doing 6 per day in the summer my younger son came on board.

With every change and expansion we could see the growth in the future, so we tailored our reporting and delivery to make sure we could accomodate the business. (The 8 page report is no longer in use except for our students as practice. We have developed our own reporting software that is, I think, the best for us because of its flexibility to meet our needs. We always had a problem when we arrived at an inspection and found out it was a 4 flat and not a single family home. We also once did a 60 unit apartment building; our report now allows us to expand and contract ad infinitum. We had our school reunion Sunday and introduced it for the first time.)

When Illinois mandated licensing in 2003 we added the school to our endeavors, and with its Continuing Ed requirements we also travel throughout the State offering classes. The school however is like the Home Inspection business: it flows with the real estate market. In 04 & 05 we had 40 students per class; now 10 is a good number. When we saw the decline in the market on the horizon, we decided to grow by money per service rather than number of inspections. So we added radon and mold to our services and that increased our overall revenue by $80 per inspection. Our marketing docs now list our services as home inspections, new construction monitoring, warranty inspections, safety inspections, radon testing, mold testing, commercial inspecting, inspection training, continuing ed training and software development. (I guess out of all of these somewhere we should make a buck.)

You asked which is more profitable. That is hard to say because they all flow off of each other. We get students because they saw us at an inspection. We get inspections on the recommendation of our students. Our graduates will hire us to do their radon and mold testing while they get started. There is a synergy here that makes each part as valuable as the next.

In the Chicago area we have a great many Spanish families and in 03 we all learned Spanish. We can conduct an the inspection in that language. We hired someone to also translate our contract into Spanish.

Speaking of contracts, when they quadrupled the E & O insurance after 9/11, we hired an attorney to write our pre-inspection agreement to so tightly protect us that the one time fee to him made up for the years of E & O we no longer carry. No one, however, has ever refused to sign it.

Bottom line for me is that every part of this: the inspections, the school, the testing, the marketing have been a lot of fun. We have had many failures along the way but also a lot of success. That's why I bristle at some of the attitudes I encounter on this and on the ASHI site. I paid my dues.

Now my sons do most of the inspecting. I predominantly market, develop the software and run the school. I still inspect every Saturday, though, because it has never ceased to be fun for me. One of my proudest accomplishments is a computer reporting system I developed that we use with our students. The report is designed as if there were an experienced inspector looking over their shoulder. Every time they describe an item a prompt occurs telling them what this would mean to a "Pro". It really helps them to understand the implications of what they are seeing.

I don't write all this stuff to impress anyone; I am too old for that. But as with my students I want all the young inspectors to see the unlimited vistas that can be had with a lot of imagination and a little flexibility.

I apologize for being so long winded. I just love this whole business, every aspect. It has made my life so challenging and rewarding. It provided a lot of opportunities for myself and my sons.

[ozofprev]

Don't apologize for being long-winded. We all know someone here who tends toward long posts.

I appreciate the well-written summary of your experiences. Success stories are good to hear.

Thanks!

[hausdok]

Originally posted by ozofprev

Don't apologize for being long-winded. We all know someone here who tends toward long posts.

Where is that malefactor? I'll have his ass on a bus to Timbuktu by tomorrow! [}]

OT - OF!!!

M.

[Home Pride]

Originally posted by Sal

...I wasn't expecting to have each paragraph dissected and each sentence parsed...

That has become the norm for most blog sites nowadays.

[randynavarro]

Well, Sal:

I respect and appreciate your views and success.

After much research and study, I've concluded that it comes down to DNA; one is made for 6 a day or 1-2 per day. I can't change DNA.

[Erby]

Where is that malefactor? I'll have his ass on a bus to Timbuktu by tomorrow! [}]

OT - OF!!!

M.

Let us know how you enjoy your bus trip, Mike!

[hausdok]

[:-yuck]

[Sal]

Originally posted by ozofprev

Don't apologize for being long-winded. We all know someone here who tends toward long posts.

I appreciate the well-written summary of your experiences. Success stories are good to hear.

Thanks!

Gary, I grew up in Niagara Falls. My mother and all my cousins still live there. I usually visit once a year. Small world.

Sal

[Les]

I think I have been in Niagara Falls -maybe one of the honeymoons, I don't know! Or maybe it was Niagara Starch I used as a kid. Is that still in the US?

Sal, I have been enjoying your posts and the thoughts. Can't say that I agree with everything, but they are well written. If and when you post something that is several pages long, then you can consider yourself long winded. Until then Mike O (or Kevin O'Hornet) is champion!

[hausdok]

Well,

There, that just proves my theory; he's got an O' at the front of his name too. O'Reilly, O'Hornet, O'Handley - all bloviators extraordinaire!

OT - OF!!!

M.

[John Dirks Jr]

All this talk about 2 a day, 4 a day, 6 a day. Damn.....all I need is 2 a week and I'll be lovin it. There's no need for me to be in a rush. Home inspection is not a stand alone business for me. It's a supplement to my regular income.

A couple a week is all I need. That's the eventual goal. I do have a life outside of work. 20 to 30k a year would be a nice addition to my current income. I'm going to stay optimistic and determined. When the market comes around, I'll be ready.

[Brian G]

Originally posted by Sal

I wasn't expecting to have each paragraph dissected and each sentence parsed, and I am not going to get into a specific point by point debate that seems so typical at these sites.

It's become typical in a lot of places on the internet, because it's good debating style. I prefer that, coming and going, to generalizations. If one guy puts up a post with five points and the opposition only speaks to three of them, the gallery has to wonder if the second guy has no answer to the other two points. I'll keep parsing, you go with whatever you're comfortable with.

There seems to be rampant intolerance for people who don't conduct their business as some inspectors believe they should.

That covers a lot of ground. We're talking about philosophies and points of view here. People tend to be intolerant when they encounter philosophies running counter what they think is best. Lord knows, HI's are an opinionated group.

Rather than demonstrate their own business plan or recount their successful methodology they revert to insults ("toadie;" "rationalization").

I didn't directly call you a toadie, or proclaim your position a rationaization. I implied that might be the case, but my insinuations are no more insulting than yours, just more overt. For instance...

Restrictions of trade, as such a law would be, are often the refuge of those who don't have the heart or the ability to compete.

Gosh Sal, what are you suggesting there? []

I know I could gain a lot from Brian G if would tell us what he does to enhance his professionalism, how he markets his business, what successes and failures he has had, what kind of reporting and delivery system he uses. I am sure his system is right for him as mine is for me.

I seriously doubt you could gain anything from me in those arenas, but I'll do that if you'll post a sample report or two for us. How about from the old days, when you still used the 8 page checklist and 4 a day wasn't out of the question? Deal?

The one disturbing insight Brian presented was his belief that a law was needed to restrict the amount of daily business an inspector can do.

It's nothing I would saddle up and campaign madly for, but yes, I do feel that way. My market is just across the state line from Phillip's, and the guy he mentioned works in my territory too. You know, Mr. 6 or 8 a day with no help. I'll call him Blockhead.

If I had to choose between:

(A) occasionally limiting a good HI who might be able to line up 4 in a day, or

(B) frequently limiting a guy like Blockhead from ripping off more than 4 people a day...

I would choose "B". I think there are many more Blockheads working in home inspection right now than there are Richard Stanleys, though it might be a tough year for Blockheads.

One reason we have to have regulations about so many things is the inability, or refusal, of so many to regulate themselves. Ambition gets over the line and becomes greed, damage is done to consumers, they get angry and complain, and eventually our lawmakers feel they have to do something to maintain order and keep their jobs. Unfortunately the regulation often fails to accomplish the intended goal, but that's another story.

You'll be further "disturbed" to know I would gladly regulate all HI's right out of the mold business, unless they were also certified as industrial hygenists. No sampling, testing, certifications, no anything, but that's also another story.

If we who perform a lot of inspections do such a bad job, why not let time and the marketplace weed us out, as it surely would.

As Phillip noted, Blockhead has been doing his quick & dirty inspections for more than 15 years. He's been sued a number of times, usually settles out of court, and keeps right on racking up the numbers. Where is that wonderful marketplace, and when will it put an end to him and all the other long-running Blockheads? I'm not holding my breath.

Could it be that after so many years and so many inspections, we are really good and efficient at what we do?

I some cases I suppose it could, but I can't see how 4 a day could happen unless the circumstances were at least somewhat extreme. Richard says he went up to 11 hours per day to get it done, and still didn't deliver onsite. It sounded like you were talking about doing that and being home on time, with nothing left to do.

The one aspect I didn't take as an insult was the fact that today I put money first (I still instruct my students that their first goals should be the gaining of experience). This is my business and my livelihood and making money is my priority.

And this is just where our philosophies clash. You're entitled to your view of it, and I'm entitled to mine. I have no illusions about changing your view, but if you post in promotion of it, particularly in response to guy who's just starting out, I feel obliged to oppose you. I'll drop this thread if you will; I'll keep posting if you do (to a point).

I spent too many years honing my inspecting skills and developing my business strategies to apologize for the fact that I am good at many aspects of this business and making money is my reward for this.

I wouldn't expect otherwise.

One final note on this subject: we seem to be one of the few professions that believes the more experienced we become and the more technically proficient we are, the longer our job should take.

I don't subscribe to that, in fact, I'd say the time should keep shrinking (slowly) until we peak. But I don't think anyone should be worrying about their time starting out. Take as long as you need. Suck the marrow out of every one you get. Think more about speed when you know you're ready.

There seems such a great emphasis on time rather than the delivery of a good product: a sound analysis of the homes our clients are buying.

I don't think it's "rather than". It's just that many of us see a direct link between the two, far more often than not.

If we state that we are doing a better job by looking at a roof for twenty minutes rather than ten then it stands to reason that looking at it for forty would be even better, or how about sixty or eighty.

Obviously you would reach a point of diminishing returns pretty quickly. It takes as long as it takes. Rushing through it to keep an overloaded schedule isn't going to promote " a sound anaysis".

To equate time with quality negates experience and proficiency.

In some cases, yes, but in others, not so much. Blockhead can rightfully claim to be the "most experienced and proficient" HI around here, but at the end of the day he is what he is.

This thinking does a disservice to young inspectors.

I disagree.

Of course they should take a greater amount of time than an experienced inspector would. But their hope should be that with their own experience they will be also become more efficient.

In the long run, I'm okay with that.

I apologize to Brian G if I made this sound, at times, personal. It is not and I don't want it to be.

It's just cyber-jousting Sal. No harm, no foul.

Maybe I will start a forum called TOJ and I will personally invite Brian G to be the first to join me at least as an honorary member.

Be careful what you wish for Sal... []

Brian G.

I Yam What I Yam (Mmmm...Now I'm Hungry) []

[Brian G]

Originally posted by Richard Stanley

I have heard of reports of 50 - 60 pages in duration. - a waste of trees.

That's not a report, it's a novella. What do you want to bet half of it was disclaimers? [:-yuck]

Brian G.

Thank You For Your Business (But We Aren't Responsible For Anything We Said, Did, or Wrote) [:-irked]

[ozofprev]

Like Les, I appreciate the presentation but don't agree with all of the thoughts - it would be disappointing if everyone thought identically.

There are degrees to which a person views his vocation as a "business" or a "service." The two concepts do not have to oppose each other, but they often do.

Personally, I tend toward the Brian camp. As a result, I was not very successful as a businessman, but every customer loved me and recommended me. I thought that would make my business successful, but alas, many jobs went to franchises and prostitutes.

I do not believe I ever came close to getting sued; still, I feared it. The book, Zen Golf, says you produce what you fear. Think about hitting the ball into the hazard, and you will. Close examination shows that the author does not mean "you produce what you fear" so much as you produce what's on your mind. At any rate, what was on my mind was doing everything for each client. For the money, I did too much. I don't regret my experience, but it is in my past.

Les, half of the falls is on the American side. The pretty half is on the Canadian side. Taking the "Maid of the Mist" boatride close to the pounding falls is an awesome experience of nature's raw power and a person's insignificance.

Archie, the man!

[Sal]

Brian, your thoughts are appreciated. If I gave the impression that my thinking is inflexible, then that was poor communication on my part. If ideas are out there that will make me a better inspector or make me more money then, as I believe my career has shown, I would be happy to embrace them and change.

You mentioned an inspector in your area who you are highly critical of, yet your disregard seems to be centered on the fact that he does a great number of inspections. What is the quality of his work? I would like to know what is it specifically about how he inspects that makes him a bad inspector. Time, reports, onsite, offsite are part of the completion of the process and the delivery of our results. How is he as an inspector? Have you seen him work? ( I don't associate being sued necessarily with bad work. The longer we are in this the more likely that is to occur. I had a case 5 years ago dealing with an inspection of a home that at the time had a foot of water in the basement. I noted the fact, discovered the source and recommended the proper person to remedy it. The essence of the suit was that I didn't tell the clients not to buy the home {In Illinois, doing so would have cost me my license}) The best inspector I ever met was horrible at report writing and clumsy with his clients, but he was amazing at inspecting. He had almost an intuitive sense about a house and what defects were there to be found while not being readily seen. His client base, while being miniscule, was extremely faithful and trusting of him. He could walk through a house and in no time at all pinpoint both the good and the bad.

I think, in the few postings I have presented over the past few days, I have tried to present a bit of insight into how I view this business, rightly or wrongly so. In order to offer a certain perspective to young inspectors, I have tried to convey the evolution that has taken place over the past 13 years and attempted to give a sense of my experience and development. And contrary to the impression I may give, I hope I am open to more change.

However, Brian, everything I know about you comes from the negatives you present. I would like to know some of the positives. What is "professionalism" to you? How do you present your reports? What is your background and experience? When you leave an inspection what makes you feel that you have accomplished what you have been paid to do? I think we can learn so much more from the positives than the negatives.

I know I have come late to this post, so if these are items you have already presented then I can understand your reluctance to rehash what you have already done. Since you seem to have focused on my postings, I thought it might be helpful to know a little about your inspecting skills and techniques in deciding if your your comments are borne of experience or theory.

We are in the midst of a massive storm here today so I have to try to shovel out.

Best of luck and, on a day like today, I envy our Southern brothers.

[Erby]

Don't envy them too much. 45 or so people dead from tornadoes!!!

Click on his profile. There's a link there that will let you read all the non-archived posts he's made and give you a better feel for his style.

[randynavarro]

My anaylsis / question about what's posted so far:

Is a 4-a-day inspector bad?

Is a 1-a-day inspector good?

I don't know how the 4-a-day can produce the same comprehensive, thoughtful, attentive, accurate report than the one a day. In blunt terms, the 4-a-day report most assuredly sucks and the 1-a-day is better (assuming the guy can write).

The next logical question:

Does a better report equal a better inspection?

[Sal]

Originally posted by randynavarro

My anaylsis / question about what's posted so far:

Is a 4-a-day inspector bad?

Is a 1-a-day inspector good?

I don't know how the 4-a-day can produce the same comprehensive, thoughtful, attentive, accurate report than the one a day. In blunt terms, the 4-a-day report most assuredly sucks and the 1-a-day is better (assuming the guy can write).

The next logical question:

Does a better report equal a better inspection?

Randy, I am not sure what you mean by a better report. A report that describes the home, specifies its condition, lists its deficiencies and gives solid fact-based recommendations is a good report. If it does that whether its long or short, filled with pictures, or narrative or checklist then it is a good report. We are paid to inspect the home. The report is simply the way to communicate our findings. I have investors who hire me and they don't want a report. They want only verbal communication. Does that mean I did a bad inspection? The inspection was the same. Only the method of delivering the results was different.

Can a technically weak inspector produce a good solid report? I would doubt that. It may look nice, be fully filled out but will his technical weakness be betrayed by the items his has missed or the invalid determinations he has made?

This would seem to hold true as to the number of inspections a person performs in a day. A new inspector is going to take longer to do an inspection. Also by the very nature of growing a business one may be all he will be commissioned to perform. Does the fact that he did only the one make it a better inspection than the two, or three, or four an experienced inspector can perform.

I believe that experience is the greatest factor in doing a good inspection. But isn't that also true of hitting a baseball or writing a novel or installing a boiler. The more we practice our craft the better we can do it. Does experience guarantee a good inspection? That too is no certainty.