EPA Radon Standards

[jimweyenberg]

Guys,

I'm looking for some back up here or let's say additional backup to the EPA standards for radon remediation systems and maybe some good retorical comments I can put to some let's say less than honest realestate agents. I know it's hard to believe they exist! Here's the thing I've been running into lately. A radon reduction system installed in a basement over the sump pit, which is properly sealed, but having 2" ABS piping extending out from the cover expanded with a rubber joint to fit a 4" radon pump mounted inside the conditioned space (just above the sump) then reduced again by a rubber reducer to 2" ABS run up through the wall to the attic and through the roof.

Now the EPA standards as of 1991 (the house was built in 1996) say the pump can not be mounted inside the conditioned space (as this one is) and must be plumbed with 3" or better piping (which this one isn't). We all know this. I rate it as a defect on the basis, it is not up to the EPA standard (notice I did not use the code word), it poses a health, moisture and fire risk if or when the seals fail and/or a considerable expence to my client to have to remove it and put in a proper system. We're talking a thousand bucks or better here! Please where am I wrong?

This agent is THE highest producing agent with the company that has over 60% market share in my area of WI. He was the listing agent for 2 of the instences, and has called me into a meeting to convince me to change my rating to only fair because the system was working, there by depriving my client of the opportunity to have this addressed by a radon speciallist as I recommended and repaired by the seller. Of coarse you know I'm not having any of that! He then shows up at another job knowing the samething will pop up and trys to intimidate me in front of my client and his agent, then sends his drop dead gorgeous assitant to play the sweet card on me by trying to be the go between and work this out. As far as I'm concerned it is worked out, I'm right and he's wrong, and our area radon speciallist aggrees with me.

I have since been approached by more caring agents to do a PR presentation to each office on the dangers of these builder installed radon systems.

Anybody have any suggestions or ammunition I can use on this guy?

Jim Weyenberg

HouseMaster Inc.

Senior Inspector

2006 HouseMaster Inspector of the Year

jimweyenberg@new.rr.com

920-309-3410

[Terence McCann]

Originally posted by jimweyenberg

This agent is THE highest producing agent with the company that has over 60% market share in my area of WI. He was the listing agent for 2 of the instences, and has called me into a meeting to convince me to change my rating to only fair because the system was working, there by depriving my client of the opportunity to have this addressed by a radon speciallist as I recommended and repaired by the seller. Of coarse you know I'm not having any of that! He then shows up at another job knowing the samething will pop up and trys to intimidate me in front of my client and his agent, then sends his drop dead gorgeous assitant to play the sweet card on me by trying to be the go between and work this out.

Reply deleted due to it's flippant nature (no banana for Terry).

As Neal said: Print a copy of the EPA standards, which are the guidelines we follow, and give them to all parties involved - not any more complicated than that.

[John Dirks Jr]

First, put all the details and specifics aside.

In any case, if you are right (and the key word is "if"), then you are right. You gave the client the information they paid for. That is your job and you did it. You are now done with it.

Why allow agents or anyone else other than your client to use any more of your time?

[Neal Lewis]

Originally posted by jimweyenberg

Anybody have any suggestions I can use on this guy?

I would suggest using spell check.

Print a copy of the EPA standards. End of story.

[Bill Kibbel]

Originally posted by jimweyenberg

I'm looking for some back up here or let's say additional backup to the EPA standards for radon remediation systems and maybe some good retorical comments I can put to some let's say less than honest realestate agents.

You did the right thing already - you cited a published, reliable source to back up your findings.

The only thing I would have added to your response to this agent would have resulted in a 4" PVC piped radon mitigation system sticking out of his butt.

Seriously, any time an agent tries to intimidate me, I use it as an opportunity to illustrate their lack of ethics.

[hausdok]

Hi,

I don't know a whole lot about radon, nobody sees it here. Here are some links:

http://www.google.com/search?q=radon+mi ... rt=30&sa=N

http://www.epa.gov/radon/pubs/mitstds.html

http://www.radon-mitigation.org/

http://www.hgtvpro.com/hpro/bp_mechanic ... 13,00.html

http://www.infiltec.com/inf-drar.htm

http://dhfs.wisconsin.gov/dph_beh/Radon ... igProf.htm

http://www.co.fond-du-lac.wi.us/Index.aspx?page=553

http://www.co.fond-du-lac.wi.us/Index.aspx?page=557

http://www.co.fond-du-lac.wi.us/Index.aspx?page=552

The first link is a google search string. The rest are results found in that string.

If you really want to get the reel-tour's attention, tell him that you'd rather not get pinged for not doing what's right with radon systems, like a well-known home inspector association leader had. Explain how the fellow had installed them for years but wasn't very diligent about following the installation rules. An investigation by his state using a random sampling of 100 of the systems that he'd installed found substantial non-compliance issues. He eventually lost his radon contractor's license and was fined $14,000+ by his state's ecology department. He went to court to contest it but lost big time. Ask the reel-tour if he's got that kind of money lying around and is willing to lose it.

OT - OF!!!

M.

[jimweyenberg]

Thanks to all for your responses and info it will all be very usefully as I am putting together a short presentation for all the area real estate offices on this concern (and Bill I will be bringing along a piece of 4" PVC for one particular agent) because now it's my turn to intimidate the less informed. hausdok thanks for the links, with all this info I can not only straighten out some less than conscientious agents, I can reaffirm in the more caring agents my commitment to my clients (and theirs) that I,m not out to brake deals, just protect and inform my clients.

Thanks Again Guys

Jim Weyenberg

HousemasterInc.

Senior Inspector

2006 HouseMaster Inspector of the Year

jimweyenberg@new.rr.com

920-309-3410

[Bill Kibbel]

Jim W. knows how to turn a negative into a positive (and how to turn piping under positive pressure to negative).

This just reminded me that I still hear claims that HIs "aren't permitted to comment on radon mitigation systems, unless they are EPA listed mitigation system installers".

I just added 2 docs to the "File Library" for those that are interested. One is the detailed Radon Mitigation Standards and the second is a simple checklist for reviewing the basics of simple, common mitigation systems.

Those docs are for systems prior to 2007. The new standard, now cited by the EPA, was developed and published by ASTM. The EPA is supposed to offer a single, free hard copy but they have not replied to my requests. I'm not payin' ASTM for it.

[Terence McCann]

For those that belong to ASHI they also have a checklist for inspecting installed Radon mitigation systems. It can be found on their web site.

[hausdok]

Hi All,

You can find those documents that Bill just uploaded by going to the menu bar above, passing your cursor over library and then choosing new files. Eventually, it will scroll down out of the new files section and you'll have to go to the file directory to look for it, where it will be found under inspections.

Like Bill, every once in a while, I go into the "my documents" archive on my computer and upload a few more documents to the library. If we all do that, eventually it will become one of the most useful resources for inspectors on this site.

Bill, thanks for being such a strong supporter of the TIJ family.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike