Lockoff locking breaker on?

[Chris Bernhardt]

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Will Square D breakers still trip properly if the breaker lock off devices are set like this? When they are set like this I can't throw the breaker unless I move the lock-off off of the breaker. Was this intentional? I find the lock off apparently locking the breakers on a lot. This can't be right. Right?

Chris, Oregon

[Richard Moore]

"Will Square D breakers still trip properly if the breaker lock off devices are set like this?"

Yes...they trip internally. You can't "lock" the breaker on so that an overload won't trip it. Think about an AFCI breaker. When you trip it with the test button it goes to the mid point. You can push the toggle back to the "On" position but it remains tripped. You have to reset the mechanism by turning it all the way off before you can turn it on again. It's the same with any modern residential breaker.

As for the position of the lock-out. It's just the way it sits flat and out of the way when not in use. It's not actually locked without a padlock through the hole.

I don't think what you have pictured is a reportable concern.

[Chris Bernhardt]

Thanks Richard. I suspected it might be that way but still seems odd. For example lets say it hasn't tripped internally and its an emergency and you go and try and throw the breaker. You can't with out lifting the lock off out the way right?

Chris, Oregon

[Richard Moore]

"You can't with out lifting the lock off out the way right?"

I'm not sure on that Chris. There is some initial angle to the toggle and it might flip itself out of the way. I can't say I have ever tried it. Next time I see one.....

[Jim Katen]

Originally posted by Chris Bernhardt

Thanks Richard. I suspected it might be that way but still seems odd. For example lets say it hasn't tripped internally and its an emergency and you go and try and throw the breaker. You can't with out lifting the lock off out the way right?

Chris, Oregon

That's true, but I never considered that to be much of a burden.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[ctgo4it]

Originally posted by Chris Bernhardt

For example lets say it hasn't tripped internally and its an emergency and you go and try and throw the breaker. You can't with out lifting the lock off out the way right?

Chris, Oregon

Well the whole point of the lock off device is so people aren't able to shut the fuse without the key (when it's locked)

[Chris Bernhardt]

Well the whole point of the lock off device is so people aren't able to shut the fuse without the key (when it's locked)

Do you have a source for that? I thought the purpose was to prevent someone from accidently throwing the breaker from off to on not from on to off.

Chris, Oregon

[InspectionConnection]

In an emergency, people probably wouldn't spend the time looking at the index trying to find which breaker to throw when they can just throw the main disconnect. At least that would be the case with me. [:-thumbu]

[charlie]

Chris,

There are some circuits (security, fire-prevention, computer related for example) that need to be locked on so that they can't be inadvertantly shut off. The breakers will still trip internally if they need to.

[Chris Bernhardt]

Chris,

There are some circuits (security, fire-prevention, computer related for example) that need to be locked on so that they can't be inadvertantly shut off. The breakers will still trip internally if they need to.

Hmm, interesting. But is that something in the NEC or some other standard?

Chris, Oregon

[Richard Moore]

That particular lock-off can be used both ways but, unless there was someone in an iron lung in the house, it's purpose is most likely to serve as "a breaker capable of being locked off". That's the NEC language for an alternative to a disconnect "within sight" of some appliances. In other words, it's there to protect the service guy.

[jon_ran]

It is for LOTO (lock out tag out). The purpose for that is to lock out that ciruit to prevent it from being activated while the circuit/component attached to it is being serviced. With the breaker off it will rest inside of the square device and a lock is attached to the hole provided. Yes it can still be manipulated to allow the breaker to be turned on, but not without an intentional effort to bypass the safety device.