What to Say When all is Good

[SonOfSwamp]

Originally posted by homnspector

Thats pretty close to what I do, the first line of the report reads:

"Items noted in the report in need of service, repair or replacement should be addressed prior to close of escrow by a licensed contractor or technician in the appropriate field to fully determine the extent of the issue and costs involved in repair or replacement." Can't tell you if it holds water, hopefully I will never find out.

I also slip in a few lines like "Unless otherwise noted in the report, all gas appliances have individual gas shut off valves installed at the appliance."

It gets pretty ridiculous. "The front door is in need of painting. Full evaluation and repainting by a licensed painting contractor is recommended."

Unfortunately, when you get bureaucrats involved in something that they have no clue about, this is what you get. If there ever is a national standard, you can be pretty sure it will be garbage like this. Be careful what you wish for.

Not to go all schoolhousey on you, but you need to fix that first sentence. You've got the contractor closing escrow.

WJid="blue">

[homnspector]

Well said Kurt and Brian.

I would like (for entertainment) to read a report that follows any organisation's standards to the letter, no more, no less. I am thinking it would be of no benefit to anybody (except maybe the buckethead) and completely uninformative. Maybe I'll try it sometime on a fictional home as an experiment.

I don't mind the state having standards but sure don't like the way they are enforced by the letter, not the spirit.

[allspec33351]

Originally posted by Brian G.

I'd love to see HI standards in law that would make a realtor-loving buckethead squirm like an earthworm on a hot sidewalk,

Brian G.

SOP = Same Old Politics [8]

Brian

Can I steal that?

Captain

[homnspector]

UhOh, Bonnie has an alter ego. Maybe I should put it at the end:

"Items noted in the report in need of service, repair or replacement should be addressed by a licensed contractor or technician in the appropriate field to fully determine the extent of the issue and costs involved in repair or replacement (prior to close of escrow) ."

Preferably I should leave that out, I don't really care when they do it. But I can see it coming, "How was I supposed to know a new roof would cost so much? Nobody told me I should check the price before I closed!"

[SonOfSwamp]

Originally posted by homnspector

UhOh, Bonnie has an alter ego. Maybe I should put it at the end:

"Items noted in the report in need of service, repair or replacement should be addressed by a licensed contractor or technician in the appropriate field to fully determine the extent of the issue and costs involved in repair or replacement (prior to close of escrow) ."

Preferably I should leave that out, I don't really care when they do it. But I can see it coming, "How was I supposed to know a new roof would cost so much? Nobody told me I should check the price before I closed!"

Heck, you could even ditch the passive voice and redundancies and go with something like this: In my report, you'll see that some items need attention. I recommend that you have these items repaired or replaced; the sooner, the better.

If an HI needs one piece of boilerplate, it should be something like this, in bold print, in an obvious place:

Regarding items in need of repair: we strongly recommend that you have qualified professionals make any repairs or modifications.

WJid="blue">

[Brian G]

Originally posted by allspec33351

Brian

Can I steal that?

Captain my captain, sure you can. Be my guest. You don't think the comparison of bucketheads to worms is too kind to the buckethead? How about too insulting to the worms? []

Brian G.

Squirm Buckethead, Squirm [:-dev3]

[Jerry Simon]

Heck, you could even ditch the passive voice and redundancies and go with something like this: In my report, you'll see that some items need attention. I recommend that you have these items repaired or replaced; the sooner, the better.

WJid="blue">

Really? Items *need* attention? How do they do that?

[JerryM]

I’ve used the word “appearsâ€

[Brian G]

Originally posted by JerryM

Where is it? What is it? What condition is it in?

Those are a given.

What’s wrong with it? What does this mean?

I don't always know the answers to those questions, so I don't pretend I do.

Who should fix it?

I can name at least one person, but when things are happening inside of walls, ceilings, and other closed-up areas I may not be able to name all who'll be needed to fix it.

“The wood shake roof covering appears to be at the end of its normal life span and shows evidence of advanced deteriorationâ€

[SonOfSwamp]

Originally posted by JerryM

I’ve used the word “appearsâ€

[SonOfSwamp]

Originally posted by Jerry Simon

Heck, you could even ditch the passive voice and redundancies and go with something like this: In my report, you'll see that some items need attention. I recommend that you have these items repaired or replaced; the sooner, the better.

WJid="blue">

Really? Items *need* attention? How do they do that?

Sure they need attention. That's why we write them up. No reason to write them up if they don't need attention.

They surely don't need inattention.

If there's a better phrase than "needs attention," let us see it. It might be useful.

WJid="blue">

[allspec33351]

"In my report, you'll see that some items need correction. I recommend that you have these items repaired or replaced; the sooner, the better."

Captain

[Jerry Simon]

Originally posted by SonOfSwamp

Originally posted by Jerry Simon

Heck, you could even ditch the passive voice and redundancies and go with something like this: In my report, you'll see that some items need attention. I recommend that you have these items repaired or replaced; the sooner, the better.

WJid="blue">

Really? Items *need* attention? How do they do that?

Sure they need attention. That's why we write them up. No reason to write them up if they don't need attention.

They surely don't need inattention.

If there's a better phrase than "needs attention," let us see it. It might be useful.

WJid="blue">

I thought you'd remember the time back on the ASHI board where you chided me for reporting an item that needed attention. According to you, inanimate items can't *need* anything.

Which story you wanna stick to?

[SonOfSwamp]

Originally posted by Jerry Simon

Originally posted by SonOfSwamp

Originally posted by Jerry Simon

Heck, you could even ditch the passive voice and redundancies and go with something like this: In my report, you'll see that some items need attention. I recommend that you have these items repaired or replaced; the sooner, the better.

WJid="blue">

Really? Items *need* attention? How do they do that?

Sure they need attention. That's why we write them up. No reason to write them up if they don't need attention.

They surely don't need inattention.

If there's a better phrase than "needs attention," let us see it. It might be useful.

WJid="blue">

I thought you'd remember the time back on the ASHI board where you chided me for reporting an item that needed attention. According to you, inanimate items can't *need* anything.

Which story you wanna stick to?

Hmm. Sounds like me. Rather than try to remember the context at the time (which I can't do), I'll concede that I could've been inappropriately persnickety.

Bear in mind, when visiting the ASHI board, a man with an itch for fixing the godawful chaos-on-a-stick that is InspectorSpeak might just fry some brain cells. When I read the posts over there, about 90% of the time, a voice in my head just starts yelling, "What the hell??? Use words! Speak English!"

WJid="blue">

[hausdok]

Originally posted by SonOfSwamp

Who made up all this passive-voice, roundabout InspectorSpeak anyway? And why do so many HIs insist on writing like faulty robots?

WJ

Hi Walt,

I have this theory that way back in the day, when this business was in its infancy, one or more builders turned home inspector went to their local library and borrowed some books on technical report writing, and that's where it comes from. They didn't know any better. I think they probably figured that what they were doing was something akin to an engineering report, so that's probably what they copied and that's what's been passed down.

If you do a google search on "Technical Report Writing Style" you'll get more than 2,000,000 returns. Go through 3 or 4 pages of the technical report writing guides you find there and most will advise against active voice and recommend passive voice; most of the older texts, that is. Some of the more recent texts are recommending active voice, but not many.

I think that these men, not knowing any better, thought that the engineers who wrote those books knew better, so they copied their lead and have passed that down for the past 30 to 50 years.

Here are a few examples. The first and second coach passive writing. The third actually coaches active voice and using plainspeak and is really quite good.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[JerryM]

My theory is that most inspectors “borrowedâ€

[SonOfSwamp]

Originally posted by hausdok

Originally posted by SonOfSwamp

Who made up all this passive-voice, roundabout InspectorSpeak anyway? And why do so many HIs insist on writing like faulty robots?

WJ

Hi Walt,

I have this theory that way back in the day, when this business was in its infancy, one or more builders turned home inspector went to their local library and borrowed some books on technical report writing, and that's where it comes from. They didn't know any better. I think they probably figured that what they were doing was something akin to an engineering report, so that's probably what they copied and that's what's been passed down.

If you do a google search on "Technical Report Writing Style" you'll get more than 2,000,000 returns. Go through 3 or 4 pages of the technical report writing guides you find there and most will advise against active voice and recommend passive voice; most of the older texts, that is. Some of the more recent texts are recommending active voice, but not many.

I think that these men, not knowing any better, thought that the engineers who wrote those books knew better, so they copied their lead and have passed that down for the past 30 to 50 years.

Here are a few examples. The first and second coach passive writing. The third actually coaches active voice and using plainspeak and is really quite good.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

The tech-writing style ripoff is surely plausible, and probably right. The problem -- as you know -- is that HIs aren't really in the technical writing business. We're in the homeowner-education business.

And then there's this, which will sound mean: Judging from the many HI reports I've reviewed, and the 10,000 boilerplate entries I've edited, it's clear that a lot of people in the HI biz are just plain undereducated. Many try to cover their communication deficits with mawkish language, passive-voice writing and heaps and heaps of just plain old bullshift.

Every time I run into a newbie HI, I hear about what he/she learned in HI school. Invariably, almost everything they learned is just plain wrong. The teachers, with few exceptions, are bad and the textbooks are worse.

This biz needs a big education/proficiency upgrade. But you know all this...

WJid="blue">

[Brian G]

I believe one effect of the legal insanity in this country is to lend credence to all that passive-voice/double-talk/CYA/BS, at least in the eyes of many new home inspectors. They're led to believe that type of writing offers some kind of legal protection, when the exact opposite is actually the case. It's frequently reinforced by the software or forms they buy, the training they get, and bad advice from other HI's who've never gotten the message.

Of course, it also fits right in with some peoples sense of "profit, first and always, no matter what, any which way". If you want to be a sleazy buckethead, you'll love InspectorSpeak. It's your passive accomplice.

Brian G.

Whycome We Can't Write No Gooder? [:-dunce]

[JerryM]

Brian has it right in speaking to defensive writing as a serious problem in inspection reports. Ah, the French thought the Maginot Line was defensible, but the Germans just went around it. Lawyers will do the same with that type of writing. I wish the great majority of inspectors would quit trying to be clever defensive writers, they’re lousy at it anyway, and just keep it simple and direct.

When I review an inspection report where I have to wade through a fancy cover pager, 3 pages of fluff about the inspector’s fabulous background and training, 3 more pages of “it’s not my faultâ€

[Brian G]

I was cleaning up the pile of magazines and stuff by my favorite chair last night when I uncovered my forgotten, unread copy of On Writing by Stephen King. I decided to read a little, and didn't get far before running into this:

(the slight editing is mine)

"This is a short book because most books about writing are filled with bullsh__.

One notable exception to the bullsh__ rule is The Elements of Style by William Strunk Jr. and E. B. White. There is little or no detectable bullsh__ in that book. I'll tell you right now that every aspiring writer should read The Elements of Style."

Lord Jim's favorite has another big fan, it seems. And on the recent subject of this thread, I later found:

"Messrs. Strunk and White don't speculate as to why so many writers are attracted to passive verbs, but I'm willing to; I think timid writers like them for the same reason timid lovers like passive partners. The passive voice is safe. There is no troublesome action to contend with; the subject just has to close its eyes and think of England, to paraphrase Queen Victoria. I think unsure writers also feel the passive voice somehow lends their work authority, perhaps even a quality of majesty. If you find instruction manuals and lawyers' torts majestic, I guess it does."

Sound familiar? He roundly denounces passive voice in general.

This is an odd two-part book. The first third is autobiographical. That part is an engaging cocktail of humor, hard times, and bare honesty. It was terrific, and I went through it in one sitting.

The rest is about how and why he writes, and what he thinks about the different parts of writing (designed for aspiring fiction writers). It was also interesting and worth the read, if not as entertaining as the first part.

I highly recommend it.

Brian G.

King's Golden Rule for Writers: "Read a lot and write a lot." [:-king]

[Chris Bernhardt]

Respondent noted the following items were in need of immediate major repair, however, Respondent failed to make recommendations to correct, monitor or have evaluated by the appropriate persons for the remedy of the following adverse condition: a defective seal in the upper living room window, a crack in the fireplace brick, moisture stains on the ceiling of the garage, a piggy backed circuit in the electrical service panel and a broken roof tile.

Do you write a recommendation to address every minor item you bring up or note them as in need of attention?

What deserves a full blown recommendation and what doesn't?

Chris, Oregon

[randynavarro]

If its realistic to have it fixed, I'll recommend it be done; "The window is broken. Fix it"

If its not realistic or feasible, I'll say so; "The basement stair case is dangerous because the risers are too high and the treads are too short. You probably can't feasibly re-build the staircase without re-framing the entire floor, so make sure a good solid handrail is installed."

Other "minor" and impractical items to repair that come to mind in 30 seconds:

Bedroom windows that are too small and too high off the ground

Hard-wiring smoke detectors that are also inter-connected

[housewhisperer]

A glossary accompanied our reports because we believed that "ownership" of certain terms used in the report was important both for clarity and risk reduction, We used the term "INSPECTED" when a system or component had been examined and no adverse conditions were found. We defined "INSPECTED" as: When any system or component is so designated, it shall mean that it was examined in accordance with the scope of work as specified for the inspection and found to be performing its normally intended function or operation and no adverse conditions were observed at the time of the inspection. The underlined terms in the definition were also defined in the glossary.

We chose to use "INSPECTED" rather than "acceptable," "satisfactory," or "functional" for two primary reasons. We found that these other terms conveyed different meanings to different people and, since we we performing an inspection, "INSPECTED" seemed to be the most neutral and descriptive term to use.

When I was teaching home inspection I had a student who kept asking if clients wouldn't feel that they weren't getting their money's worth if he didn't find any adverse conditions to report. I asked him if would feel that his doctor didn't give him his money's worth if, after getting a physical, the doctor gave him a clean bill of health. Would he feel better, I asked, if the doctor told him he had a half dozen problems, one major illness, and a possibly terminal condition? He got the point.

[Jim Baird]

Please pardon my impatience at not having read thru these numerous posts.

My report is a verbal, narrative description of what I saw on inspection day. Sometimes it talks about what's wrong. It never gushes about what's cool or well done or whatever. It is very neutral when it's not critical, but usually about the same length.

[JerryM]

After sitting a bar for a few hours and having enough to drink anything in a dress who walks in may look good?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but is it functional, in satisfactory or serviceable condition?

Originally posted by allspec33351

It's never happened to me, I always seem to find things.

Captain