know nothing about this ac unit

[chicago]

Building built in 1963 and I am guessing this is original.Condo conversion four years ago.

Main unit is outside in a corral with 3 fans and I am not able to get info on this brand name.

Looks like Knitzan or knitgan?panel Any info would really help.No plates were seen outside other than the main shutoff to the unit.Inside the living unit had a blower in the bottom section and kept the place cool.I am guessing this is some kind of chiller unit of which I am starved for info.

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[SonOfSwamp]

Originally posted by chicago

Building built in 1963 and I am guessing this is original.Condo conversion four years ago.

Main unit is outside in a corral with 3 fans and I am not able to get info on this brand name.

Looks like Knitzan or knitgan?

Also wondering if the insulation could be asbesto's?

1. I think the name is Kritzer. When in doubt, I search my brain for a word that a person could actually pronounce.

2. So, Asbesto (sounds like a super-villain to me) could be the owner of the insulation? Wonder what evil scheme he's planning...

WJ

[chicago]

Nothing under that name either,although any info on even what type of unit this is would help.

Both pipes in the pic are cold .

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[hausdok]

I think it's German. Being a German linguist, I had no problem pronouncing it Kritzer (krit zair). I think the model is Combinex.

I googled Kritzer and then air-conditioning systems and found a Richard W. Kritzer listed as the founder of an air-conditioning endowment fund, who is also listed as a Professor at a university in Urbana, IL and the founder of Peerless.

Could it be he, or his forebear, that used to manufacture air conditioners in your part of the world? I notice you are in Illinois - maybe it was a local company that never really took off and went national - sort of like Rossoe Heating Systems in Seattle (Great furnaces, by the way).

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[SonOfSwamp]

Originally posted by chicago

Nothing under that name either,although any info on even what type of unit this is would help.

Both pipes in the pic are cold .

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Googling "kritzer furnace" turned up some info that looked like HVAC replacement parts. There's another word under "Kritzer." What's that word?

WJ

[hausdok]

I'm pretty sure it's Combinex but I couldn't find anything in Google for that.

OT - OF!!!

M.

[chicago]

The amount of water condensation was more than I am used to seeing,but figure this may be normal for this type of system.

Looks like I may simply need to put it under the hated refer to qualified contractor catagory.The only info afforded me was through a board member of the association of five buildings whom told me they replaced the outside unit at hers two weeks ago for 30 grand ,so I figure this may follow suit.

This could be a consideration for my client if funds were drained.

When I was there I thought the word was combiner as the compartment holds a blower and exchanger only.

I love this job for these little puzzles.

[kurt]

You've got your answer.

The other building had to replace their identical system for $30,000 recently.

Knowing that, the name of the mfg. becomes unimportant.

[chicago]

I agree ,and will make sure to reaffirm to my client that looking over reserve funds and meetings is more important in this instance.

[Terence McCann]

Originally posted by chicago

Nothing under that name either,although any info on even what type of unit this is would help.

Both pipes in the pic are cold .

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What you have there is a chiller. Both lines are cold because there is chilled water running through the pipes, not Freon. You have the normal condenser, compressor and then a chiller barrel in which water flows on one side and Freon is on the other. You then have a circ pump that takes the chilled water and pumps it to the HVAC unit(s). These units typically have a slab evaporator that the chilled water flows through. The control for these evaps can sometimes be a 3-way mixing valve that is thermostatically controlled. They like to use 3-way mixing valves to keep a constant head on the pump so that it doesn't cavitate.

The inside unit is known as a fan-coil unit. Simply stated it's a fan with a water coil. I would imagine that the unit is used for both heating and cooling so I would think there is a boiler present too. The fan-coil units typically have a strap-on thermostat that is attached to the supply water line to the water coil. When the thermostat senses hot water it changes the room thermostat to direct operation for heat and when it senses chilled water is changes the operation to reverse acting.

What Kurt said is spot on - it's long in the tooth and will need replacement soon. The original manufacture is not important.

IMO, Trane screw chillers are the best that can be purchased. The slant-six of chillers.

[chicago]

Thanks Terry that was an excellent description and helps a lot.

I was not able to see the furnace but was told it is gas vented with the same blower unit so I am sure you are correct.

Some one did mention they had a Trane from 1947 that still works on my association forum while I have been trying to stubbornly research this unit.

[Kyle Kubs]

Originally posted by Terence McCann

Originally posted by chicago

Nothing under that name either,although any info on even what type of unit this is would help.

Both pipes in the pic are cold .

What you have there is a chiller. Both lines are cold because there is chilled water running through the pipes, not Freon. You have the normal condenser, compressor and then a chiller barrel in which water flows on one side and Freon is on the other.

Ah Ha! That explains it. ( and a dammed good explanation it was Terrance.) I'm sitting here looking at the picture saying "hard pipe with sweated fittings??? On high pressure gas line??? - Now it makes sense.

I'll probably never see a system like this, but if I do, now I might seem half way intelligent while I'm looking at it.

[hausdok]

Hi,

Yeah, he'd mentioned in his first post that it was a chiller. I thought that this part was interesting:

You have the normal condenser, compressor and then a chiller barrel in which water flows on one side and Freon is on the other. You then have a circ pump that takes the chilled water and pumps it to the HVAC unit(s). These units typically have a slab evaporator that the chilled water flows through.

The reason it intriqued me is because, while I was doing my google search, I discovered that a fellow named Kritzer has a US patent on a very unique HVAC heat transfer method. I didn't bother to read all of the particulars, although I thought it might be the same Kritzer fellow named above. Maybe this is one of his devices.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[kurt]

Just curious; where was it?

I've never seen a Kritzer unit. I've seen a couple other ancient weird chillers; I wonder if they were the same design(?)...

[chicago]

Des Plaines.

[russ myers]

Kritzer was also a very popular brand of finned baseboard radiation

Kritzer and Slant Fin were the two biggies in the industry........some years back

[Dion B]

Im a Engineer of a building in chicago ive been working on these units for over six years now. They are Kritzer combinex units the combinex means it can run heated or chilled water through the 2 pipe system. The kritzer fan coil unit runs using a 1/6 hp motor controled by an inducer (looks like a transformer) this controls the speed to the motor it was made by carson which no longer manufactures these anymore. part #2576 stamped on it. Also the strap on thermostat is actually more like change over switch this is what is used to go from Heat to cooling. This part if made is impossiable to find so i tested out a few over the years the the part i use is a TAC Erie Thermostatic Change over Switch part #680-243-x your white wire goes to your switch L1 of kritzer unit,black wire is for Heat and, Blue is for Cool to wall t-stat. If you have problems with the motor on the fan coil unit i recommened using a Fasco D-158 3-speed motor and abandoning the inducer/transformer. If you have any other questions please feel free to ask.

[hausdok]

Kewl,

I think he'll get that. He stomped out of here all angry at us a while back but I see his IP Address sometimes when he's here reading and lurking.

If your in Chi-Town you might have met Kurt. He's been in a bunch of those big buildings over the years.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike