Brass nipples?

[Renron]

Can brass be used in lieu of dielectric materials for transfer to and from water heaters without causing electrolisis? Please no comments about piecerings. Unless its a good one. [:-eyebrows]

Cool TPR line.

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[Paul MacLean]

Brass nipples are used here a lot, and they seem to work. I can't recall seeing any corrosion at brass nipples on a water heater. I don't have any technical data.

[Renron]

Paul

Thank you for the quick response.

Ron

[DonTx]

Ron,

Try this on for size:

2000 IRC P2904.14.1 Copper or copper-alloy tubing to galvanized steel pipe. Joints between copper or copper-alloy tubing and galvanized steel pipe shall be made with a brass converter fitting or dielectric fitting. The copper tubing shall be joined to the fitting in an approved manner, and the fitting shall be

screwed to the threaded pipe.

You have another problem with the WH. The copper flex line is smaller than the outlet for the T&P valve. Plumbers sing my praises when I call this out!

Donald

[Terence McCann]

Is copper flex line even allowed no matter what size?

[Richard Stanley]

'and from my view point it does not gravity drain...

[Renron]

Donald,

Thank you for IRC #, Once again I learn something on this forum everyday. What a great group!

Terry,

No, flex is not allowed here, it has to be rigid pipe unthreaded on the end,(I think-guess because it will not kink as easily if damaged)only a guess

Please note my comment on my 1st post, "Cool TPR line. :)"

Rstanley,

It kinda looks like a twisty straw my kids used for fun.

Out here in earthquake country, CA, we are also required to have 2 seismic straps to prevent tip-overs.

Thanks

Ron

[Terence McCann]

Mike:

Your quote stated (paraphrased):

Lastly, gas and water connectors must be replaced with flexible connectors and the flue should be braced. Flexible connections allow the water heater to move several inches without breaking.

The flex pipe in the photo was on the T&P discharge line. In my post I should have been a little clearer about the question but the only flex pipe visible was the discharge line. I need to poke my nose in our code book but I don't think flex on a T&P discharge is kosher not matter what size.

[Renron]

Mike,

Wow, your fingers must be tired after that long post you wrote! My response to Donald was regarding the TPR line, not the input or output sides of the water heater! I recommend Stainless Steel Braided lines for the water heaters along with shut offs on both sides to my clients. Not to mention Braided SS lines on Washing machines. I never said anything about CA not allowing Flex on IN or OUT sides. I'm lookin' for where it says flexi line is not allowed on TPRs,

I'll Be BACK.

Ron

[Renron]

I somehow get the feeling I'm going to regret my last post.

Ron

[Brian G]

Originally posted by hausdok

He don't know me very well, do he?

In the immortal words of one of my 10th grade teachers, "Obliviously not!". []

Brian G.

[Renron]

Mike....I'm Baaaack.

Ok here we go again, I'll see if I can miss my mouth with my foot this time. On the subject of TPR drain pipe types, I found this:

UPC 608.5

"Relief valves located inside a building shall be provided with a

drain, not smaller than the relief valve outlet, of galvanized steel, hard drawn copper piping and fittings, CPVC, or listed relief valve drain tube with fittings which will not reduce the internal bore of the pipe or tubing (straight lengths as opposed to coils) and shall extend from the valve to the outside of the building with the end of the pipe not more than.............."

Now, if I were to see a Flex-type TPR drain pipe that was listed as such then I would accept it, otherwise it's not. The coils (ridges) of copper flex drain line act as baffles and would create turbulance, thereby reducing the flow rate and effectivley reducing the internal bore. OR is that Eternal Bore? This what happens when I try to become better educated on routinely viewed items.

NEXT!

Ron

(part PitBull)

[Brian G]

Originally posted by Renron

UPC 608.5

"Relief valves located inside a building shall be provided with a

drain, not smaller than the relief valve outlet, of galvanized steel, hard drawn copper piping and fittings, CPVC, or listed relief valve drain tube with fittings which will not reduce the internal bore of the pipe or tubing (straight lengths as opposed to coils) and shall extend from the valve to the outside of the building with the end of the pipe not more than.............."

The coils (ridges) of copper flex drain line act as baffles and would create turbulance, thereby reducing the flow rate and effectivley reducing the internal bore.

Brian G., Devil's Advocate here Ron. The code doesn't say the rate of flow can't be hindered at all, and in fact most manufacturer's specs I've seen allow up to 4 elbows or 30 feet in length in spite of the minor reduction involved there. It appears they do allow some restriction of flow, but within established limits. The limits of the copper flex are not known, or are not addressed by the code or specs. So, it seems to me that whether this is acceptable or not would fall to the judgement of the AHJ under the present set-up.

Brian G.

Meet My Boss [:-dev3]

[Paul MacLean]

For what it's worth, flex connectors are used on T&P drains in this area more often then not. I don't know anyone who complains.

[DonTx]

See what happens when you lose interest in a post and do not revisit? [:-sleep]

I'm back now also.

Mike,

My response about the flex line was in regards to Rons T&P line. I don't worry about the code on this as there is usually a tag hanging off the pop off handle stating that the T&P drain line is required to the the same size as the outlet of the valve. You can look and see that the 3/4 inch copper flex is not the same size as the 3/4 inch outlet of the T&P valve. [:-magnify]

As for the brass being used in lieu of the dielectric unions on the supply side, I gave Ron the IRC side of the equation. It's up to Ron or another reader to decide whether or not the IRC is used in their jurisdiction. [?]

Here in the land of no code enforcement, the IRC is King. Unless we're inside an incorporated city, there is no code enforcement although Texas has adopted the IRC as the statewide building code. I rarely have to deal with an AHJ. I assuming any reader who reads a post on these boards know their local conditions.

As for the line about plumbers "singing my praises", that was a sarcastic remark. They actually call me very bad names. [:-censored] Sometimes they even hurt my feelings with the names they use. [:-weepn]

Donald "not feeling the love" Lawson [:-jester]

[Konrad]

As an aside note to the ensuing drama...

I read or heard somewhere that another motive for strapping the water heaters in place was to help preserve a potential source of water if an earthquake did strike.

If the municipal water is out because of the quake, your home has a 40 gallon tank of it that you can live on for a while if you're in dire straights.

[Renron]

Konrad,

You heard right. I got the same information from the head honcho at OES in my area.

Yet another reason to drain 5 gallons out twice a year.

Ron