Distorted vinyl siding from window reflection

[Hearthman]

I've investigated a lot of these cases on the side of a factory built fireplace chase. This is where a southern exposure reflects sunlight onto the side of the chase or dogshed. Often, the siders will cut these panels tight and snap them in, overnail them tight or both. It doesn't take much for the sun to buckle and warp them.

If you investigate this, check the length of the panels for play as well as nailing that the panels are loose.

HTH,

[Erby]

Back from the dead!

[tom struble]

i have seen it

came from a defective andersen skylite

the top glass became concave

it melted the fairly light colored vinyl [wolverine restoration ,herring bone

about 20' away

looked like a lazer beam,amazing

[Larry Stamp]

I have never seen such warping, but I am curious of those who have: In any of these cases have the homeowners installed an aftermarket reflective coating on their windows. I know we did so on our West windows and when the sun hits them, they are hotter than, "Billy Blue Hell", on the outside.

I'm new to this forum. Is there a way for my e-mail to get flagged when a response is posted from this thread???

[hausdok]

I have never seen such warping, but I am curious of those who have: In any of these cases have the homeowners installed an aftermarket reflective coating on their windows. I know we did so on our West windows and when the sun hits them, they are hotter than, "Billy Blue Hell", on the outside.

I'm new to this forum. Is there a way for my e-mail to get flagged when a response is posted from this thread???

Yes,

Look above the topic. If you see a box with an @ symbol, check on that to subscribe.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Jim Katen]

I have never seen such warping, but I am curious of those who have: In any of these cases have the homeowners installed an aftermarket reflective coating on their windows. I know we did so on our West windows and when the sun hits them, they are hotter than, "Billy Blue Hell", on the outside.

I've seen this warping several times -- twice this year (so far). To the best of my recollection, only once was there an aftermarket reflective coating on the glass. It didn't seem to have anything to do with the issue. I'm convinced that the problem is the convex glass. It focuses the light dramatically.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[ejmnext]

I have seen it several times. I am the servic emanagre for a large exterior company in the twin cities. I have seen it from tan to dark red. Color does not seem to matter. As far as I know all that I have seen have been from low e glass. Not sure on the concaving. We have handle almost all the situations the same. We replac the siding at no charge 1 time. In most cases we never hear back. We treat it as an act of nature. Generally the melting happens in a general short time spam of lets say a few days of hot weather. After those few days the sun is at a differant hieght at that warm part of the day and reflection moves. The next year, that same day and time, it may be raining or overcast those days and the siding will not melt. I have only had one return call after replacement, The home owner paid us to change the small return wall (luckly) that it was happing on to alumnium the same color and profile. Window manufatures generally won't do anything. One told me to reposition the house (literally... smart guy) Siding companys won't either , act of nature. sorry no photos.

[Michael Carson]

I am at the NAHI conference and I will ask around and see if folks have seen this. I will encourage them to post as well.

Hey Guys,

Martin is good people and there's nobody better to have hanging around here and chiming in on building science issues, so let's do what we can to help him find what he needs.

Kurt, could you or one of the other ASHI guys re-post his query to the ASHI board - you've got my permission to cut and paste it directly off of TIJ. That board is where I first learned of this phenomenon and where I got the photos that I've got archived. Since I guit ASHI....

Could some of you NAHI, NACHI and A.I.I. guys do the same thing on your respective boards. Again, you've got my permission to cut and paste Martin's query to those boards.

If anyone has photos, how about posting them here?

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[hausdok]

Hi Michael,

Thanks, we appreciate the input.

OT - OF!!!

M.

[gtblum]

Looks like I may have run into this yesterday. The window faces dead south. The strange thing was, the place is surrounded by mature hardwoods that looked to be close enough to shade the house from the sun even in July. I can't imagine that dryer vent could throw enough heat to cause this. What do you guys think?

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[Chad Fabry]

What do you guys think?

I think the home will easily qualify for membership in that elite group known as the "Ugliest Homes In America the world.

Most of the siding that I see that looks like that is the result of stupid+grill or beer+grill.

[hausdok]

To me, the damage looks like it's too close in to that inside corner to have been caused by refracted sunlight from either window.

I think the dryer could have done it. Look at the pattern of the dark heat stain on that piece of unfinished trim and look at the direction that it goes - up and to the left.

Is it possible that dryer duct outlet isn't installed very well and a bunch of that hot air is flowing up behind the siding to that corner? Some testing that CPSC did in the beginning of the decade found that dryer exhaust can be anywhere from 61 to 79°C and that the heater box of a gas dryer can exceed 800°C. I don't thnk that there's any doubt that if the air from a clothes dryer was wafting into that corner it could melt and distort that vinyl.

On a side note; what kind of numbnuts installed a rain screen product on the diagonal like that. Find out, go into Word, print out a bogus Darwin Award certificate for him/her and drop it in the mail to the moron.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[gtblum]

Most of the siding that I see that looks like that is the result of stupid+grill or beer+grill.

Me too but,they had a nice deck on the back of the house for that stuff

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Thanks, guys

[Erby]

To me, the damage looks like it's too close in to that inside corner to have been caused by refracted sunlight from either window.

I disagree, Mike. Look at the pictures I posted on Page Three of the thread (#75).

Exact same setup

south facing window

late afternoon sun melting the vinyl

It is an UGLY house isn't it.

Speaking of grill melt! see below from just yesterday.

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[gtblum]

On a side note; what kind of numbnuts installed a rain screen product on the diagonal like that. Find out, go into Word, print out a bogus Darwin Award certificate for him/her and drop it in the mail to the moron.

I might have to print two because, I don't see what the big deal is.

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Guess you'll have to split this to yell at me.

[RichNSpect]

Here is an example:

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Homeowner even tried to put up a shied to prevent it from happening.

Kevin

[Chad Fabry]

I might have to print two because, I don't see what the big deal is.

Guess you'll have to split this to yell at me.

That just sucks the life force out of me.

[gtblum]

I might have to print two because, I don't see what the big deal is.

Guess you'll have to split this to yell at me.

That just sucks the life force out of me.

Don't know why it does, Chad. There's not that much of a difference. Wind driven rain gets inside of horizontal plastic siding too.

[Brandon Whitmore]

I can't imagine that dryer vent could throw enough heat to cause this. What do you guys think?

Was there ever a deck attached to that ledger? Could be that there was a mini BBQ placed up against that area before it cooled down, ofr there could have been reflection off of something on the deck that no longer exists.

[gtblum]

I can't imagine that dryer vent could throw enough heat to cause this. What do you guys think?

Was there ever a deck attached to that ledger? Could be that there was a mini BBQ placed up against that area before it cooled down, ofr there could have been reflection off of something on the deck that no longer exists.

No sir. There's a slider to the right of that corner that leads to a library/den that is so far away from the kitchen and the gigantic deck outside of it, that if there had been one, it would be an unlikley place for a grill. It's located around the right corner of where the chimney is in the last picture.

[Tom Raymond]

I might have to print two because, I don't see what the big deal is.

Guess you'll have to split this to yell at me.

That just sucks the life force out of me.

Don't know why it does, Chad. There's not that much of a difference. Wind driven rain gets inside of horizontal plastic siding too.

I attended a building materials seminar a few years ago where the tyvek rep explained that on average 20% of the water that hits vinyl siding ends up behind it. Given the slope of that ugly installation, all of that water ends up concentrated on the down hill side.

Mike, I burst out laughing when you called vinyl a rain screen, there is an entire developement here where the big production builder omited the WRB from every house. Cheap vinyl right over the OSB sheathing.

Edit: BTW, this phenomenon is closely related to the collapsed glass thread from a few days ago. Without the distortion of the thin glass the reflected light never reaches the focal point needed to generate that kind of heat.

Tom

[Chad Fabry]

Don't know why it does, Chad. There's not that much of a difference. Wind driven rain gets inside of horizontal plastic siding too.

Disregarding the weather-tightness, it's the ugly, the fungal, the cheap windows, bad details, and crappy siding feel to the whole house that leaves me yearning for a serotonin boosting drug. It's the kind of house that takes either 30 pages or three words to describe.

[Tom Raymond]

I can name that tune in three letters[]

Tom

[IO]

To all respondees: From not knowing this condition ever occurred (until a friend recently mentioned having the problem), to being respectfully informed by various comments from around the country, I thank you all.

As a home inspector for many years, Im always intriged by these happenings. And, when each Manufacturer stops blaming the other (dream on), solutions will be plentiful.

Thanks,

Wayne

I/O

[mark parlee]

Wayne

I did a report on this for a client that had this problem

Email me and I will send you a copy.