Distorted vinyl siding from window reflection

[Jim Katen]

Originally posted by joepa

. . . Anyway, while I'll have to replace the siding, is anyone aware of a "cheap" way to stop the reflection from the windows-screens,coating, etc.? . . .

Ask your neighbor to help you build a tall fence.

Good fences make good neighbors.

- Jim Robert Frost Katen, Oregon

[Les]

I'd put a solar panel on that side of house.

-Les Scrooge McDuck Van Alstine, Michigan

[joepa]

good thinking

[joepa]

Again, does anyone know of any coatings that can be applied to the windows that reduce/eliminate reflection?

[hausdok]

Hi,

I think if anyone here knew of any coatings that work they would have responded with that information by now. We're home inspectors; we report observations but don't usually have much involvement in the end solution. That has to come from the builders and product manufacturer and it's usually slow in coming. It's a relatively recent phenomenon and it affects so few consumers that I don't think the window industry, or the vinyl siding industry, is saying much publicly about it. Have you tried contacting a window shop to ask them about what can be done? Window companies are certainly aware of the phenomenon; the article in Energy Design Update made that very clear.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[SonOfSwamp]

Maybe it's just me, but if I had the problem, I'd make a giant mirror out of plywood and tinfoil, and point it back at the neighbor's windows. Maybe put out a couple hoopdie woofers, and play German polkas in the direction of the offending sunshine.

WJ

[joepa]

Here are 3 pix I have taken of damage. I have a few more if interested. You can see the reflected sun that is causing the damage.

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[hausdok]

Hi,

That proves what I was saying above. With my situation, I get the same reflected pattern except that the arcs cross each other and aren't focused as intensely as that bright diamond you have in the center. You should contact Martin Holladay at Energy Design Update, he'd be tickled pink to be able to get actual photos of sunlight striking the vinyl exactly where the damage is occurring.

OT - OF!!!

M.

[joepa]

Originally posted by randynavarro

quote:Originally posted by Martin Holladay

I am writing an article for Energy Design Update about the warping or melting of vinyl siding due to reflection from window glass.

Never seen it.

Only vinyl I've seen melted is right behind BBQ's.

Martin, I have posted some pix of the sun hitting the vinyl on my house and causing damage. It was suggested that you might be interested in them. See my post on page 3 of this forum.

[hausdok]

Hi Joe,

Martin isn't a regular here, so you'd be better off to click on his user name and then send that message directly to him via email.

OT - OF!!!

M.

[joepa]

Originally posted by hausdok

Hi Joe,

Martin isn't a regular here, so you'd be better off to click on his user name and then send that message directly to him via email.

OT - OF!!!

M.

OK THanks

[jaimemason]

Originally posted by joepa

Here are 3 pix I have taken of damage. I have a few more if interested. You can see the reflected sun that is causing the damage.

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[jaimemason]

Originally posted by joepa

Here are 3 pix I have taken of damage. I have a few more if interested. You can see the reflected sun that is causing the damage.

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I am not sure If Ii am posting right or now... I normally don't do this, but I have been doing some research myself on melting siding and I came across your posts... We had just recently finished a second story addition to our home and had the whole house resided with Certain Teed vinyl Carolina Bead siding... It is the exact color and style as Joes. My garage side of my house has totally melted and looks exactly like your photos... I have all over the place with Certain Teed and have not gotten much accomplished... I did not belive that my neighbors one little up stairs window could have done so much damage, but then when I was out there today I saw that crazy X with the almost laser looking center... In deed the siding was hot to touch... this is sooo nuts... Joe what have you done???? If the window is replaced do you think it would solve the problem? I am going to call the manufactor of the window on Monday and see what they say as I find it hard to believe that this is going to have to be my problem... Either the window must have a problem or the siding must be of poor quality... Needless to say that is kind of what Certain Teed referred to us in not so many words... They offered to replace that side of the house, but now that I see that there really is a problem with the window I think that may be useless... any way instead of rambeling I am just wondering if you have figured anything out with your home.

thanks...

[hausdok]

Hi,

That's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Mine is very similar except there is a slight dark spot in the center because it isn't perfectly focused and that prevents the temperature from getting hot enough to actually melt the vinyl.

OT - OF!!!

M.

[Jim Katen]

Originally posted by jaimemason

. . . If the window is replaced do you think it would solve the problem?

Possibly. Can you tell if the surface of the neighbor's window is concave? It's just a guess, but I suspect that a flat piece of glass wouldn't do this.

I am going to call the manufactor of the window on Monday and see what they say as I find it hard to believe that this is going to have to be my problem...

Trust me when I tell you that trying to assign blame here is a worthless pursuit that will end badly. Focus on solutions, not indignation.

Either the window must have a problem or the siding must be of poor quality...

What's happened is the result of commonplace physical laws of nature. The sunlight hits the window; the window focuses the sunlight; the focused sunlight hits the vinyl; the vinyl gets hot; the vinyl melts. None of it has anything to do with the quality of the window or the siding. It's an unlucky accident.

To correct it, you'll have to address one of the links in the chain that caused it.

1. Maybe, if the neighbor changes the glass panel in his window, the new glass will be flat and won't focus the light so strongly. This is a dicey one because, the glass shape can change over time.

2. Is there a way to build a fence that will shield your siding from the window's reflected light?

3. The existing vinyl is toast anyway. Could you re-side that side of your house with Hardiplank and paint it to match the vinyl?

4. You could go to the hardware store and buy some aluminum and some bronze screen material. When the light is hitting your house, place one of those screens over the neighbor's house to see what effect it has.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[brianbowman]

Originally posted by NewInspector

My apologies to those i've offended by posting my initial reply.

I am new to the field & was merely trying to find out if what I had been told/taught was accurate. I should have asked the question as to whether a widespread, melting type, damage to VS could be caused by foil faced insulation board installed behind. I would still like an answer as I am now thoroughly confused. It seems from your posts that foil faced backing has not been a problem. Is this factual?

I should have included a disclaimer with my previous postings that I am neither an experienced inspector nor a wordsmith ("more temperate")

[brianbowman]

Originally posted by NewInspector

My apologies to those i've offended by posting my initial reply.

I am new to the field & was merely trying to find out if what I had been told/taught was accurate. I should have asked the question as to whether a widespread, melting type, damage to VS could be caused by foil faced insulation board installed behind. I would still like an answer as I am now thoroughly confused. It seems from your posts that foil faced backing has not been a problem. Is this factual?

I should have included a disclaimer with my previous postings that I am neither an experienced inspector nor a wordsmith ("more temperate")

[hausdok]

OK,

It looks like Brian Bowman is trying to figure this thing out. Brian, if you want to respond in general, click on the button "reply to topic" at the bottom of the page. If you want to reply to a specific comment, then click on "reply-guote" as you have done and it will display the post you are trying to quote. Then all you have to do is enter in your comment - either above or below the coded text - and submit the comment.

OT - OF!!!

M.

[brianbowman]

I have been in the vinyl siding business for ten years and have come accross melting due to reflection 3 times. None of them had foil of any kind behind them. I am currently working on a house that has Georgia Pacific siding (blue) .040 thickness. We have repleced the siding with the same color but upgraded to .042 thickness. I doubt that this upgrade alone is going to solve our problems, as I have another house that has an .044 thickness panel on it. We are also going to experiment with tinting the glass however I will not have results until winter of 2008 as the sun is not in the right position until then. Getting back to the 044 thickness house. This house i sided in november 2006. we used a siding called Craneboard made by Crane. It is a double 7" panel with foam that is glued to the back side and is the best siding panel that i have used. The siding is cypress green which i believe has nothing to do with the melting. This melting also occured in the winter months. I replaced the panels once and the same thing happened again in the winter of 2007. I was also there at the right time one day to witness the reflection hitting the siding and it was to hot for me to hold my hand on. I don't believe there is any vinyl siding that can withstand this kind of heat. I am very interested in finding a solution for my customers. Any info would be greatly appreciated. I have spoke with the siding manufacturer and they blame it on the window company, and the window company blames it on the siding. I personally belive that this is a window problem, but i am left with no where to turn.

[Martin Holladay]

Thanks to everyone who has recently posted on this topic.

As others have pointed out, there is no simple cure for this problem.

According to window manufacturers, vinyl is an inappropriate siding material because of its low melting point.

According to the vinyl siding manufacturers, the windows creating the reflections are defective because they cause concentrated areas of high-temperatures.

Under our legal system, liability is being determined by the courts.

Anyone who wants to communicate with me on this issue is welcome to e-mail me:

Martin Holladay, editor

Energy Design Update

holladay@sover.net

[joepa]

I am going to try a tinted outer window pane with a low-e inner pane to see if the tint will allow enough refraction of the light.

Ill keep you posted. One of the issues with my neighbors is that a non low-e window will allow too much heat into house, raising energy bills, etc. legitimate concern so am trying a tint. If that does not work, I guess a hardi-plank will be installed.

[SonOfSwamp]

Just wondering: Might putting a screen on the outside of the window(s) solve the problem?

WJ

[jgclancy]

Maybe some sort of tinting.Automotive car window tinting might work too.

If it's just one window ask them to put some sort of roll down awning on the outside of the window.

If they say no then maybe a nice, decorative lattice work at your house.

Just some ideas.

Neighbor wars are never the way to go.

Jim C.

[Tom Raymond]

Originally posted by SonOfSwamp

Just wondering: Might putting a screen on the outside of the window(s) solve the problem?

WJ

Yes a full screen, charcoal fiberglass, standard mesh should diffuse enough light to fix the problem. Pretty cheap and easy on a double hung or slider, casements and picture windows not so much.

Tom

[Erby]

I've seen quite a bit of melted siding due to window reflection but today I actually got to see the reflected light.

The siding temperature at the light spot was about 115 degrees with the rest of it at about 100 degrees. The outside temperature was about 58 degrees at the time. It was a cool afternoon but the wall was facing directly west into the sun, i.e, the sun was almost directly to the left of the house as seen from the first picture.

The sliding glass door was on the south wall of the house.

I doubt that it was doing much melting today but it was easy to see how the reflected light moving across the wall at just the right angle would cause it during higher temperature periods.

When I slid the screen part of the door open to cover the reflecting glass, the bright light went completely away. When I moved the screen out of the way, the light came back.

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I won't say much here about the rest of the crappy installation of the siding. It's obvious!

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