Distorted vinyl siding from window reflection

[Les]

Roger, Hang in there, if they didn't like you they would just insult you personally.

Warped vinyl siding has nothing to do with foil.

Warped vinyl siding caused by reflection seems to mostly on tan, beige, light gray colors. Warping occurrs all over the US. I am north of Detroit and we have seen it.

I might talk about remedy, but do not recommend fixes. We try to report defects and possible causes.

[Chad Fabry]

Roger, if someone flames you it means they think you have potential. Enjoy the warm fuzzy feeling.

[paul burrell]

Originally posted by NewInspector

My apologies to those i've offended by posting my initial reply.

I am new to the field & was merely trying to find out if what I had been told/taught was accurate. I should have asked the question as to whether a widespread, melting type, damage to VS could be caused by foil faced insulation board installed behind. I would still like an answer as I am now thoroughly confused. It seems from your posts that foil faced backing has not been a problem. Is this factual?

I should have included a disclaimer with my previous postings that I am neither an experienced inspector nor a wordsmith ("more temperate")

Roger,

To use this forum one must not be thin skinned. There are several seasoned veterans that will jump you. However they mean no harm they are just slightly sadistic.

When I was very young and gullible an old timer on a construction project told me to put a wet turpentine rag in my hip pocket and it would keep the flies away from me. Well I wound up with a blistered @$$ and they got a good laugh on me but I never did it again. Moral of story sometimes the hard way is best way to learn.

Happy inspecting.

Paul B.

[Jim Katen]

Originally posted by NewInspector

My apologies to those i've offended by posting my initial reply.

No apology is necessary. I certainly wasn't offended. Sometimes my posts are slightly brusque. That's my problem, not yours.

I am new to the field & was merely trying to find out if what I had been told/taught was accurate. I should have asked the question as to whether a widespread, melting type, damage to VS could be caused by foil faced insulation board installed behind.

Don't beat yourself up over this stuff. Your post was fine.

I would still like an answer as I am now thoroughly confused. It seems from your posts that foil faced backing has not been a problem. Is this factual?

Not in my experience. From what I've seen the presence or absence of foil has no effect on the melting phenomenon.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[hausdok]

Hi All,

I found these in my photo archives. I didn't take them and I don't have a record of who sent these to me. I'd like to know whether it would be ok to share them with Martin. Does anyone recognize them? If so, please email me with your permission and particulars about yourself and the photos.

OT - OF!!!

M.

Download Attachment: SunlightDamagedVinyl_Small.JPG

46.8 KB

Download Attachment: MeltedVinylSiding.jpg

59.56 KB

Download Attachment: ReflectionHeatedSiding.JPG

34.4 KB

Download Attachment: ReflectionHeatedSiding2.JPG

52 KB

Download Attachment: ReflectionHeatedSiding3.JPG

35.49 KB

Download Attachment: ReflectionHeatedSiding4_Small.JPG

56.07 KB

[ozofprev]

Mike,

I believe numbers 2 and 6 (with 1 being the top pic) are the ones I hooked Martin up with earlier. They were at the ASHI site and were taken by Tim Maxwell.

Originally posted by hausdok

Hi All,

I found these in my photo archives. I didn't take them and I don't have a record of who sent these to me. I'd like to know whether it would be ok to share them with Martin. Does anyone recognize them? If so, please email me with your permission and particulars about yourself and the photos.

OT - OF!!!

M.

[hausdok]

Thanks

OT - OF!!!

M.

[Jim Katen]

Originally posted by hausdok

Hi All,

I found these in my photo archives. I didn't take them and I don't have a record of who sent these to me. I'd like to know whether it would be ok to share them with Martin. Does anyone recognize them? If so, please email me with your permission and particulars about yourself and the photos.

The one showing the IR thermometer and the one labeled "2" are from someone named Quarello. I don't remember his first name.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Craigo]

I'm not an inspector but I have had vinyl siding meltage issues in two areas on my house that I built in 2004. Color is clay. I have pictures, and if anyone wants to email me I'd be glad to send them, and you do have permission to use them any way you wish, if it might help others in this situation. The manufacturer (RMC/Stylecrest) has offered to replace the siding, but of course that will not solce the issue. They will have to do this yearly.

[hausdok]

Hi,

I moved into a condo complex in February. It's got vinyl siding. Standing outside, one can see that all of the double-paned windows are slightly concave. Every sunny morning, I watch shiny circles with a focused pair of criss-crossing arcs in the center walk down the sides of the building directly across from my windows. One morning I got up, walked over there and put my hand in that sunny spot. It was hot - too hot to hold my hand there for more than about 15 seconds. I'd bet that the exact same configuration situated closer to the equator where the sun is higher in the sky would absolutely ruin that siding on the very first day. Seeing that, it's easy to understand how at just the right angle reflected light from windows can melt vinyl siding.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Les]

Hey Mike,

Did you guys get an "honorable mention" in Martin's published article? He sent me a hard copy, but I don't have a link to offer.

[hausdok]

Nope,

I got a copy too. They made mention of some other sites: BobVilla.com; doityourself.com; and homesupportforum.com, but not TIJ.

That's okay, I was happy to be able to hook him up with some guys who could give him some good information. Martin says that he'll be doing a follow-up article soon, so if any of you guys have got photos and want to share your experiences, send them along.

A subscription to Energy Design Update is $399 a year, Les. At those prices, they don't allow anyone but subscribers to link to their articles.

Hmmm, $399 a year? Maybe I should be looking at this subscription fee thing. [:-eyebrow

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[KimiSue]

I am new to your site; I actually happened upon it by accident while trying to find some information on melted siding. My neighbors installed replacement windows in the early summer and my house has been damaged. Initially, we were unsure of the cause, but after replacing the damaged siding, we were stunned to see it had melted once again in mere days (in the dead of winter!).

After taking photos of the damage, we were amazed to see the light reflection in the exact same location as the siding damage. What I' trying to determine is responsiblity. We can replace the siding over and over again and the damage will only reoccur if the cause is not remedied. The neighbor is unwilling to alter anything, including installing screens or an awning because he claims the damage is due to "cheap siding". Any suggestions?

[hausdok]

Yeah,

You can direct the neighbor to this site and to Energy Design Update, so he/she will realize that it has nothing to do with cheap siding. Either that, or hire a lawyer and direct the lawyer to this site and EDU so he/she can build a case against the neighbor and the window manufacturer for the damage to your home.

Alternatively, has the neighbor got vinyl siding? If so, purchase a an identical brand window set it up in your yard so that the sun is reflected onto his siding for an hour or so every day and let the neighbor see how he/she likes his own siding being damaged.

Bwahahahahaha.

OT - OF!!!

M.

[Chad Fabry]

Imagining Mike sketching a parabolic dish of replacement windows and calculating the focal point...it started with ants and a magnifying glass.

Kimi please post some photos of the siding while being illuminated from the reflection off your neighbor's windows.

[Jim Katen]

Originally posted by KimiSue

I am new to your site; I actually happened upon it by accident while trying to find some information on melted siding. My neighbors installed replacement windows in the early summer and my house has been damaged. Initially, we were unsure of the cause, but after replacing the damaged siding, we were stunned to see it had melted once again in mere days (in the dead of winter!).

After taking photos of the damage, we were amazed to see the light reflection in the exact same location as the siding damage. What I' trying to determine is responsiblity. We can replace the siding over and over again and the damage will only reoccur if the cause is not remedied. The neighbor is unwilling to alter anything, including installing screens or an awning because he claims the damage is due to "cheap siding". Any suggestions?

In the interest of neighborhood harmony, I suggest that you install Hardiplank siding on that wall. Paint it to match the vinyl on the rest of the house.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[hausdok]

Hi Chad,

It doesn't really have to be a parabolic. The windows on my place and the place across the way are visibly concave - maybe even slightly too much. When they project light on the unit across the way, the light is a bright white X, as if they'd gone slightly past the focal point. My siding gets too hot to touch but not hot enough to physically melt it. I'm convinced that the degree of concavity (is that a word) in the window reflected off of, and the distance to the object damaged, are critical factors in whether the siding merely gets too hot touch or actually begins to melt. From what I'm seeing, the cheaper, generic brand vinyl windows seem to allow this to happen more than the expensive brands. Regardless, it does happen.

It would be kind of cool though, to be able to have a wall clad with vinyl siding and a bunch of various brands of windows mounted on gimbals and tracks so that the distances and angle of deflection could be experimented with, in order to determine exactly which conditions are optimum for melting to take place.

Kimisue, how far is your house from your neighbor's house and are the two houses exactly parallel to each other or are they angled toward or away from one another?

Jim, that's a pretty good suggestion. However, if the house was fine until the neighbor replaced his windows and then the siding turned to soup, she replaced the siding, and in short order, in the middle of winter, the same thing happens, there's an obvious cause and effect. Shouldn't one expect that the neighbor should bear at least some of the cost burden to replace the siding with Hardiplank?

Kimisue, have you talked to your insurance carrier or asked your neighbor to talk to his about this? It might be worth exploring. If your tree falls down and damages a neighbor's house it's going to be your carrier that pays for the repairs. It's a condition of his property that is damaging your; seems to me that's kind of the same thing, and, since it's provable, maybe his insurance company should be paying to re-side your home with Hardiplank?

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Jim Katen]

Originally posted by hausdok

. . . Jim, that's a pretty good suggestion. However, if the house was fine until the neighbor replaced his windows and then the siding turned to soup, she replaced the siding, and in short order, in the middle of winter, the same thing happens, there's an obvious cause and effect. Shouldn't one expect that the neighbor should bear at least some of the cost burden to replace the siding with Hardiplank? . . .

Maybe. But from KimiSue's charactarization of her neighbor, that route will be an uphill struggle. There's a cost to sleepless nights, ulcers and tension between neighbors. I'm saying that when you factor in that cost, it would be cheaper to simply re-side and be done with it.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[joepa]

Originally posted by Jim Katen

Originally posted by KimiSue

I am new to your site; I actually happened upon it by accident while trying to find some information on melted siding. My neighbors installed replacement windows in the early summer and my house has been damaged. Initially, we were unsure of the cause, but after replacing the damaged siding, we were stunned to see it had melted once again in mere days (in the dead of winter!).

After taking photos of the damage, we were amazed to see the light reflection in the exact same location as the siding damage. What I' trying to determine is responsiblity. We can replace the siding over and over again and the damage will only reoccur if the cause is not remedied. The neighbor is unwilling to alter anything, including installing screens or an awning because he claims the damage is due to "cheap siding". Any suggestions?

In the interest of neighborhood harmony, I suggest that you install Hardiplank siding on that wall. Paint it to match the vinyl on the rest of the house.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Hi, I live in Charleston, SC. We recently moved into our home that was new construction with a light brown vinyl siding.

The siding next to our neighbor's house (easterly side) has warped and melted. The cause is believed to be sunlight reflected from neighbor's Low "E" (?) windows. In mid afternoon, about 3 pm, I have noticed four small squares of sunlight being reflected onto my house where damage has occurred.

Anyway, while I'll have to replace the siding, is anyone aware of a "cheap" way to stop the reflection from the windows-screens,coating, etc.?

Thanks.

PS I have pictures if anyone is interested.

[Les]

Joe,

I would like to see the photos.

Can you post them?

[joepa]

Originally posted by Les

Joe,

I would like to see the photos.

Can you post them?

[joepa]

Originally posted by joepa

Originally posted by Les

Joe,

I would like to see the photos.

Can you post them?

As soon as I get off work, Ill post 'em

[hausdok]

Hi Joe,

I think screens might diffuse the light enough to stop the melting. However, many of the new vinyl windows that open only have screens on half of the window. Is the neighbor even going to be able to put full screens on his windows?

OT - OF!!!

M.

[SonOfSwamp]

Sigh. I will be the curmudgeon.

Vinyl siding leaks water and air, leaving wall cavities vulnerable to water penetration, rot, mold, etc.

Vinyl siding generally lowers the value of a house. It also melts when people light up barbecues, or the house next door catches on fire, or reflections from neighbors' windows hit it.

Besides all that, any would-be burglar with a box cutter can cut off the vinyl and walk right through the wall into the house, in seconds. In short, vinyl is very expensive. A decent-but-affordable affordable siding such as HardiPlank would serve better.

I say rather than fret over the neighbors' vinyl-melting windows, just get rid of the vinyl. And don't buy any more vinyl. It's not durable, and the total cost of ownership (TOC) is just too high.

That said, vinyl siding should come with a warning about leaks, cracks, melts, etc. Naive homeowners think it's just fine.

Never buy siding you could wear as a belt,

WJ

[joepa]

Thanks. Realize Hardi Plank is way to go but not our call, unless I want to pay big $$$ to replace all siding.

Not sure if screen an easy solution for window. There is just 1/2 screen on lower part now and upper, where I think reflection is coming from, may not have place for screen but that will be investigated.