Any Problems with Stone Veneer?

[randynavarro]

This isn't a trick question.

House is 1998. Stone veneer covers probably 80% of the exterior.

Just curious to see what others would write regarding these details . . . if you think anything is wrong?

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[hausdok]

Hi Randy,

Is it real stone or cast stone? It kind of looks like cast stone to me but the photos have been taken at an oblique angle that prevents me from seeing whether any of them are identical. If it's cast (faux) stone, it does not need a brick ledge. Think of it more as a very rough and blocky stucco coat. It is bonded to mortar laid over an extruded metal lath that's attached to the exterior. It has to drain just like stucco and the same clearance for drainage rules apply to the bottom of the veneer at the exterior.

It shouldn't be any closer than 2-inches to flatwork or about 4 inches to grade. The perimeter of the windows should be sealed with backer rod (Backerseal works best) and the surface of the joints tooled with butyl. If it's faux stone, just think of it and inspect it like you're inspecting a stucco exterior and you won't have a problem making the right calls.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[kurt]

There's a couple variations; some of the "new" stone is simply adhered to the house, some is stacked. It's imperative to know which type of "stone" it is.

I think these materials are tricky. The few jobs I've seen w/this stuff had problems. It's another engineered material where no one is reading the instruction manual(s).

[chrisprickett]

Got weep holes/weep screed?

[Bain]

I'm seeing this more in my area, and really don't know what kinds of problems to look for. Any hints?

I assume that moisture infiltration around the doors and windows is a problem, but how can that be ascertained?

[randynavarro]

Is it real stone or cast stone?

It sure looked real to me. Too irregular and organic. I was curious how they got so many nice exterior corners, though.

Got weep holes/weep screed?

None

I assume that moisture infiltration around the doors and windows is a problem, but how can that be ascertained?

That's the hard part. I found a water-damaged interior window sill, mold growth on the bottom of the drywall on one wall of the garage (bottom of exterior rock was buried in the soil at this area), and pockets of rot in the crawlspace along the bottoms of the walls - but not all walls.

I usually don't do much follow up after I leave a property, but I think I might on this one.

Not sure what they're going to do to have any testing. I basically told them the only way I know is to do some destructve investigation.

BTW, the other 20% of the home was stucco. A stucco expert will be drilling and probing the parts of the walls that I'm almost positive will have issues.

[Bain]

I Googled some manufacturers, and most don't recommend any kind of backer rod, however one did mandate z-flashing above the doors and windows, along with weeps.

[BADAIR]

Bottom corners are where you can tell natural from most cast systems. Cast may have "L" shape pieces at inside and outside corners. Mirror works great for low terminations.

Of course the substrate attachment is critical when "glued" systems are used. Cast is still much heavier than any stucco applications I've encountered.

I hand pressure test for wall movement at numerous locations especially windows and doors, as I do on any brick veneer, any movement and the substrate is not correctly secured or fasteners are failing.

Hollow tapping like EIFS or loose tiling often means problems underneath the surface.

I see problems with these all to often.

[randynavarro]

Follow Up. The exterior / stucco specialist completed his inspection. Yes, the stone is real.

Yes, there is a drainage plane / barrier - that's what the plastic is coming from out and under the stone in this photo:

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He sez its a neoprene gasket type material that masons use these days to seal the stone behind and then they drop it over the ledge of the foundation.

He couldn't physically verify a brick ledge but thinks the stone is sitting on a recessed shelf on the foundation.

He also concurs with my thinking that cultured stone is becoming the next EIFS He's already inspecting plenty of places in our area that he's finding significant issues with.

[BADAIR]

Randy,

Maybe it's the eternal optimist in me but I think the "exterior / stucco specialist" is blowing bubbles up your skirt.

That "membrane" sure looks like the sill poly we use down here.

Why would they over hang the ledge by what looks to be 2"?

Did the plans spec this?

[randynavarro]

Originally posted by BADAIR

Randy,

Maybe it's the eternal optimist in me but I think the "exterior / stucco specialist" is blowing bubbles up your skirt.

How did you know I wear a skirt? That's private.

That "membrane" sure looks like the sill poly we use down here. Why would they over hang the ledge by what looks to be 2"?

Well, I'm not sure I buy it either but I'm not a masonry expert. Remember, this is the Northwest - lots of cedar, fiber-cement lap siding. . . and LP and Weyerhaueser lap siding.

Did the plans spec this?

No idea. The architect and masonry contractor were meeting at the property today to review other issues that I and the stucco inspector found. I'm already off and running to other inspections - wish I had time to follow up on some of these issues, but . . .

[cguffin]

Randy,

Just ran across this at HGTVpro. Thought it may be of interest.

http://www.hgtvpro.com/hpro/pac_ctnt/te ... eoid=67000

Direct Applied Stone Veneer.

Thanks,

Craig

[kurt]

Originally posted by randynavarro

He also concurs with my thinking that cultured stone is becoming the next EIFS

I think that's a very good possibility.

[Les]

Most new Cornfield Palaces in Mid-Mich have at least 4 or 5 different wall cladding materials. Some as many as 8-9 types. The faux stone work is going to be the most problem in the future, as it crosses the line between skill sets.

We recently had a $500,000 repo one year old that had: Full Brick Veneer, Half Brick veneer, EIFS, Vinyl, rough sawn fir, fiber cement, steel siding shingles, wood trims, limestone sills, faux stone, field stone and a parged insulated poured exposed foundation. Everyone was upset because I told the inspector he had to charge more for the extra time chasing all the elements down. Truth be told, the house had no evidence of a tube of caulking ever being on-site!

[StevenT]

I thought this might be useful.

There are a number of different, but similar systems out ther. I liked this company's the best.

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[Minaldo]

Yes there whould be weeps and some rainscreen drainage plane. The air space located directly behind the exterior veneer should contain a rainscreen drainage system. In this exterior building envelope, a weather-resistive barrier reduces outside forces that draw the moisture into the wall assembly. When moisture does penetrate the exterior cultured veneer (thin stone, thin brick, or acrylic stucco), it is able to drain through the envelope via the space created by the drainage plane. Water exits through weeps placed as low as possible on the wall (top of window/door openings, or bottom of wall 4" above grade). No knoweldgable contractor should be doing this type of work without a drainage plan.