Shingle wind resistance

[Chris Bernhardt]

Does anyone attempt to lift up tabs and try and make some assesment as to whether the shingles are properly fastened? Do your look for shiners in the attic and check tar stip adherance all to asess wind resistance?

I had a complaint a few months back where the shingles were flying off of roof I inspected. We don't usually have yearly problems with high winds in my area but in the last couple of years we have. This last week I lost 2 bundles of 3 tab shingles on my own roof!

We have had years of relative calm and in that time we have had a lot of dumbass fly by nighter roofers nailing on shingles every which way except the prescibed way.

I think the cheap 3 tab that they are still throwing on the roofs around here are lucky to make it thru 30 mile an hour winds. From my experience laminated shingles are far more wind resistant. I have been thinking about going with shangles for my own roof.

My guess is that in tornado and huricaine contry the roofers do a better job in general then around here but I could be mistaken about that one.

Chris, Oregon

[Jim Katen]

Originally posted by Chris Bernhardt

Does anyone attempt to lift up tabs and try and make some assesment as to whether the shingles are properly fastened? Do your look for shiners in the attic and check tar stip adherance all to asess wind resistance?

Yes, yes & yes.

I had a complaint a few months back where the shingles were flying off of roof I inspected. We don't usually have yearly problems with high winds in my area but in the last couple of years we have. This last week I lost 2 bundles of 3 tab shingles on my own roof!

In my opinion the longevity of comp roofing shingles is all about wind. If there's no wind, it doesn't really matter how you nail them. If there's wind, the nailing job is critical.

We have had years of relative calm and in that time we have had a lot of dumbass fly by nighter roofers nailing on shingles every which way except the prescibed way.

That's exactly right. As long as there're no big windstorms, there's no penalty for doing it wrong.

I think the cheap 3 tab that they are still throwing on the roofs around here are lucky to make it thru 30 mile an hour winds. From my experience laminated shingles are far more wind resistant. I have been thinking about going with shangles for my own roof.

If I had some spare money to throw around, I'd put on Presidentials.

My guess is that in tornado and huricaine contry the roofers do a better job in general then around here but I could be mistaken about that one.

Chris, Oregon

I've noticed much better installations on the Oregon coast than in the valley.

On the other hand, I've heard that in hurricane country, the carpetbaggers descend on the ravaged area and do a pretty piss-poor job.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Mark P]

Yes, I check for lose tabs.

What is "shiners in the attic"

[Les]

reflected light from fastener penetration.

Jim, hurricane in Florida = no roofers in Michigan for several weeks. Reason? = $85 per sq in Mich and $415 per sq in Florida and insurance pays! Nobody cares about licensure in Florida, just get er done!

[Lewis Capaul]

I lost a quite a few shingles in the wind storm last week, every one of them still had the plastic protector strip still on the adhesive'tar strip, that makes it a "little" difficult for the shingles to adhere to each other. When I went to Home Depot to get a couple of bundles there were broken shingles laying everywhere that people had brought in to match, every one still had the plastic strip, that shows the quality of work for many of the roofers in my area. A**holes.

[cguffin]

It's everywhere! I had tornado and hale damage on two properties. This year. One was totaled the other just needed a roof. They did the job on the roof then I made two calls to the contractor in the we hours of the morning while my roof was leaking during rain and after the third attempt they finally got it right.[:-censore

[housewhisperer]

It’s hard to understand how three-tab composition shingles are incorrectly installed when the full installation instructions with illustrations are printed on every bundle wrapper but it’s a pretty common occurrence.

The number, type, placement, length, and correct contact of the nail head with the shingle are all important. Experience indicates that hot dipped galvanized roofing nails work best as long as they penetrate through the plywood or OSB substrate or a minimum of ¾ inch into wood planking. The rough surface of hot dipped nails provides increased skin friction along the shank of the nail so that when there’s sufficient deck penetration, it makes them resistant to backing out due to vibration, thermal expansion and contraction, and drying of green deck materials.

Take a look at www.asphaltroofing.org/pdf/tb_221.pdf for good general information regarding fastening three-tab composition shingles.

When I lived in Boulder, Colorado extremely high wind gusts were a fact of life – 147mph in January 1982. This is comparable to the landfall of a Category 2-3 hurricane. Trash cans needed to be labeled with a return address if you wanted the folks in Kansas to send them back. Needless to say, no shingle manufacturer warranted their shingles to remain in place and no builder warranted that a roof would stay put under such conditions.

We never lifted a shingle tab unless it was already not adhered to the shingle below it and the temperature conditions were such that gently and lifting the tab wouldn’t result in stress cracking or breaking the tab. We occasionally encountered entire three-tab composition shingle roof coverings that weren’t sealed to the shingles below because the shingles had been installed during a time of year when temperatures weren’t high enough to permit an effective seal. Fine dirt would get blown under the tabs during the cold season and, when the temperature finally got warm enough to soften the adhesive, the dirt on the adhesive prevented a proper seal.

If we found unsealed tabs, we noted it in the report. A few unsealed tabs was typically noted as a normal maintenance condition but, if there was a clear pattern of inadequately sealed tabs, we recommended that the entire roof covering be evaluated by a qualified roofing contractor. Ditto if we weren't able to see the ends of the fasteners penetrating through the roof substrate in the attic.

[randynavarro]

Yes, I lift shingles to look for nailing patterns and quality.

Yes, I look for shiners in the attic.

3-tab roofs are not necessarily the bottom of the barrel. Like anthing else, the mfg. has a great deal to do with the shingle quality. If they're nailed (or stapled) correctly, and the seal strip does its job, they'll perform fine.

[swarga]

My home was built in 1985.

I will be replacing the original 3 tab shingles in 2007.

When installed properly and maintained, they can last a while.

Disclaimer: I live in an area where the sun shines 350 days a year and the last time it snowed here was 1992, it melted by 9:30 AM

[hausdok]

Hi,

I check them all, call them out when they aren't adhered and recommend having the cover hand-sealed. I've had roofers call me up all hot and bothered about it. I tell 'em, "OK, tell me the brand name and the series of shingle and let me get on the internet, check out the manufacturer's instructions and see if they are supposed to be hand-sealed when installed in temperatures too low for them to self-adhere. So far, out of about 20 of these irate roofer calls only one roofer was right and the manufacturer didn't require them to be hand-sealed. The client was cool about it. I'd already told the client that I didn't know the brand or series of shingles and that it was possible that, once I'd learned the brand and series, that I'd discover that the manufacturer of that particular shingle didn't want them hand sealed. I'd also told the client that it that turned out to be the case, that they should have the roof cover hand-sealed anyway if they don't want to be repairing the cover after a wind storm.

Around here, you can pretty much plan that from about mid-October thru mid-April they won't self-adhere and will be hand sealed. After last week's wind storms and the wetting we got (News said that we got more than 1-inch an hour at some points), I'll bet there are a bunch of roofers that are going to end up repairing jobs where they didn't bother to hand-seal them and maybe even a few lawsuits over water-damaged property.

Been off the net since last Thursday night at 9:34PM when the power got knocked out for a few days. Got power back on Saturday, Cable TV came back up this morning but for some reason the danged internet is still not up, so I'm typing this from my classroom at North Seattle Community College.

Here's a tip for VOIP users: Make darned sure that you've got your VOIP phone set up to ring simultaneously at your office and cell phone or you are royally screwed when the net goes down.

Stop chuckling you guys - I'd forwarded my phone, but I'm sure that someone got caught flat-footed by it.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[randynavarro]

Originally posted by hausdok

Been off the net since last Thursday night at 9:34PM when the power got knocked out for a few days. Got power back on Saturday, Cable TV came back up this morning but for some reason the danged internet is still not up, so I'm typing this from my classroom at North Seattle Community College.

Thread drift:

Funny how the electrical and connectivity grids work.

Mike, I live probably only 2/10ths of a mile from you as the crow flies.

I didn't get power back 'til 1AM this morning (Monday). My internet, though, never went out. . . . generator kept us functioning.

[hausdok]

Huh,

Well, it's still out. The danged cable TV works. I guess that's something. Keeps the Korean Konnection from driving me up the wall 'cuz she's bored, but I've harranged the down hall, the superintendent of public works, the cable company, the power company and everyone else and that damn tree is still leaning on the line by Plywood Supply Company and I'm sure that has to be what's causing this. I've a good mind to rent a chainsaw and go down there and cut the damn thing off the line myself.

OT - OF!!!

M.

[inspector57]

Lewis, I am a new poster here, so forgive me if I offend, but the plastic strips on the bottom of shingles do not need to be removed. The clear plastic protectors are to keep the shingles from sticking together in the bundles when stacked precisely on each other in the bundle. When the shingles are spread out on the roof, the strips will not line up with the tar strips on the shingle below, (there should be felt below, not shingle) and therefore no problem. You will not find any requirement or recommendation from the manf. to remove the plastic strip. I have seen this error repeated in other forums and I just could not let it pass without correction.

Jim

[randynavarro]

Got a call today from a friend.

Our infamous wind storm here in Seattle last week ripped about 100 or so shingles off her roof.

Went to check it out. 3-Tab shingles were in good condition - good color, flat, nice and thick too. Probably a 30-35 year shingle. 10 years old.

Trouble is, hardly any of the seal strips took. I could lift just about any random shingle at will. It was easy to see how the wind just penetrated right under the shingle and started ripping 'em off.

They lasted 10 years with no troubles. Bummer is the 11th year proved to be fatal.

I've never really made a stink about a shingle that I could easily lift before. Fact is, they'll endure about 95% of our weather. I guess its that last 5% that we should be concerned with.

[Jim Katen]

Originally posted by inspector57

Lewis, I am a new poster here, so forgive me if I offend, but the plastic strips on the bottom of shingles do not need to be removed. The clear plastic protectors are to keep the shingles from sticking together in the bundles when stacked precisely on each other in the bundle. When the shingles are spread out on the roof, the strips will not line up with the tar strips on the shingle below, (there should be felt below, not shingle) and therefore no problem. You will not find any requirement or recommendation from the manf. to remove the plastic strip. I have seen this error repeated in other forums and I just could not let it pass without correction.

Jim

You're correct, however. . .

I remember debating this point with another inspector many years ago. He insisted that, if the plastic strips weren't removed, the seal tabs wouldn't work. I told him he was nuts. He finally took me to see a roof where this was happening. Sure enough, there was the plastic strip neatly positioned right over the seal tabs. My guess is that the bundles got hot and the plastic adhered to the seal tabs instead of their initial location on the shingle. When the roofer peeled off a shingle, the plastic strip came along for the ride.

I saw it with my own eyes and I can't think of another explanation.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Brandon Chew]

When I was shingling the roof of my addition a few years ago, I remember that when I opened the bundles of shingles and pulled them apart to use them, that on a lot of them the plastic strip was sticking to the seal strip on the top of the shingle instead staying on the bottom of the shingle above it. I didn't give it much thought at the time as to why it might be doing it. I just pulled the plastic off the shingles where it stuck to the top surface and threw it away.

[hausdok]

Originally posted by randynavarro

They lasted 10 years with no troubles. Bummer is the 11th year proved to be fatal.

I've never really made a stink about a shingle that I could easily lift before. Fact is, they'll endure about 95% of our weather. I guess its that last 5% that we should be concerned with.

Hi Randy,

Yeah, that's exactly why I've always written it. I don't need to get that call.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Lewis Capaul]

Originally posted by Jim Katen

Originally posted by inspector57

Lewis, I am a new poster here, so forgive me if I offend, but the plastic strips on the bottom of shingles do not need to be removed. The clear plastic protectors are to keep the shingles from sticking together in the bundles when stacked precisely on each other in the bundle. When the shingles are spread out on the roof, the strips will not line up with the tar strips on the shingle below, (there should be felt below, not shingle) and therefore no problem. You will not find any requirement or recommendation from the manf. to remove the plastic strip. I have seen this error repeated in other forums and I just could not let it pass without correction.

Jim

You're correct, however. . .

I remember debating this point with another inspector many years ago. He insisted that, if the plastic strips weren't removed, the seal tabs wouldn't work. I told him he was nuts. He finally took me to see a roof where this was happening. Sure enough, there was the plastic strip neatly positioned right over the seal tabs. My guess is that the bundles got hot and the plastic adhered to the seal tabs instead of their initial location on the shingle. When the roofer peeled off a shingle, the plastic strip came along for the ride.

I saw it with my own eyes and I can't think of another explanation.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Jim, I'm not easily offended, especially not when someone points out my mistakes as nicely as you, I still feel like a dumba** though. I'd mentioned the plastice strip to my brother who told me the same ting as you, but being my brother he wasn't so polite. I must be getting old and its been 10 years or so since I did a roof, but I do remember having to pull the plastic strips off the TOP of nearly every shingle on a couple of roofs. Thankyou for being tactful and pointing out my mistake, but that's how we learn I guess.

Thanks

Lew

[inspector57]

Now plastic strips on the TOP of the tar strip and shingle is a different story, I would call that a defect. Now who made the mistake is another story, the manufacturer should not have made it that way, the roofer should not have left it that way. I guess there is enough blame for everyone. That is one defect I have never seen, must be a regional thing.

Jim