Inspector Misses a Recalled Product

[homnspector]

I don't know what the heck you guys are talking about but as my son would say, "whatever".

How about somebody comes up with a home inspector database we can subscribe to to punch in serial or model numbers and find out about recalls? kind of like appraisers and flood data. I would be willing to pay a subscription fee if somebody would gather the info into a central spot I could tap into. As it is, it is difficult to wade through the baby cribs and car seats to find stuff that is pertinant to our job. TIJ is a big help but obviously doesn't address the old stuff. How about it Mike, a new buisness in your spare time?[:-glasses[:-glasses

[swolsen]

Hello Fritz,

You can do advanced searches on the Consumer Product Safety Commission's web site:

http://search.cpsc.gov/?col=pubweb&ht=0 ... &lk=1&rf=0

Use the "for documents that [must contain]" option. and search on key words like, Brand or Model. i.e. Weil McLain

You should get hits on recalls pertaining to or related to Weil-McLain products.

[Brandon Chew]

Originally posted by swolsen

Actually Brandon. If you are familiar with visual basic you can code your own button to do just that from MS Word within IX.

Well, um, yeah. One of the reasons I went with an MS Office based product for my report writing was because I could do stuff like that, if I had the time to learn how and wanted to do so. Or I could pay Mike B for doing it in a future version of the software (hint).

[cguffin]

(Better yet, once you have punched the make, model, and S/N into InspectExpress, have a button you can push that will do the search for you,)

-----------------------------Plus--------------------------------

(How about somebody comes up with a home inspector database we can subscribe to to punch in serial or model numbers and find out about recalls?)

-------------------equals-------------------Brilliant!!!!!!!

[swolsen]

Hello Craig,

Brandon was just referring to such a button in Inspect Express.

The CPSC web site is that database. I use it in just that manor. I start with punching in model and/or serial numbers. If that has no hits, I will still search on make or brand to see if there are any general recalls pertaining to multiple brands. Sometimes the models and/or serial number's relating to recalls are on the manufactures web site. If so there will be a link from the CPSC data page.

[cguffin]

Thanks for the info Scott,

I will check that out today! It would be realy cool if that data base could be downloaded and accessed offline. That way we could use it with a PDA or laptop on the job site.

Craig

[hausdok]

Originally posted by cguffin

Thanks for the info Scott,

I will check that out today! It would be realy cool if that data base could be downloaded and accessed offline. That way we could use it with a PDA or laptop on the job site.

Craig

Well,

I think you can, if you have a laptop or palm computer that is wireless internet capable. Several inspectors have talked on here about using their computers to look stuff up on the net while on-site, so why not?

OT - OF!!!

M.

[cguffin]

Ya, There lies the problem. I don't have one "yet". But as soon as I start making all that HI green I will get myself one. []

Thanks, Craig

[walter]

I'm a newbie, so you will have to take my comment with a grain of salt. I was taught that a home inspector is like a general practitioner, if you see a problem refer the client to a professional.

In the case of the furnace, if the inspector did not see a problem and it was working, then he did his job. His report reflects his inspection of the day. If it does not work or blows up the next day, it is not his fault, but it is the fault of the previous owner.

If the lawyer comes after you, tell him if he is good, he should be able to get the house for free and not bother with your EO insurance.

You the home inspector are small fry compared to the previous owner.

[kurt]

Walter, the idea is that we are the professionals. We don't have to refer problems to the guy the realtor is going to send out; we can know this stuff. Please, try to forget all the crap the HI school told you about what we are and how we should behave.

OTOH, staying on top of recalled product(s) is almost impossible in the ridiculously tiny time frames we have to work in. Imagining that we can be onsite doing a complete recall search for the house is not realistic.

Personally, I try to stay on top of the big stuff, but that's about it.

[Chris Bernhardt]

Ditto, what Kurt said.

Walter, after you have drop kicked enough problems over the wall for a so called "professional" to evaluate you will soon enough realize that these so called professionals don't know as much as you think they do.

You can learn, know and understand far more then what you have been led to believe. There are no boundaries. Its a bit massive but you can get a pretty good handle on the building code, manufacturers installation instructions and the various industry standards that apply to what you are inspecting. You can even learn to do basic engineering.

Chris, Oregon

[Bain]

Double ditto.

Once you're in bidness for a while and see what kind of responsibility and work ethics the alleged professionals possess, you'll realize that, as a group, they're horrid. Exceptions exist, but sadly they typically work their way up the food chain, start a business of their own, and hire employees who are far less competent.

[DLRambo]

This was embarassing to me to see how wrong a writer thats supposed to have HI experience could be. I've always enjoyed Barry Stones stuff BUT this was out in left field. I'm a ME by training; a past HVAC contractor & Factory Rep; and a 28 yr Home Inspector. LIke Kurt I've never heard of this furnace NOR do we do recalls.

[chrisprickett]

Originally posted by DLRambo

This was embarassing to me to see how wrong a writer thats supposed to have HI experience could be. I've always enjoyed Barry Stones stuff BUT this was out in left field. I'm a ME by training; a past HVAC contractor & Factory Rep; and a 28 yr Home Inspector. LIke Kurt I've never heard of this furnace NOR do we do recalls.

The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) is warning consumers in California that certain gas-fired horizontal forced-air furnaces manufactured by Consolidated Industries (formerly Premier Furnace Company) present a substantial risk of fire. There have been about 30 reports of fires and damage to homes associated with these furnaces, as well as failures of burners and heat exchangers that can lead to fires. The furnaces were installed exclusively in California.

Unless you inspect in CA, you never would have heard of it. I'd be interested to hear what our CREIA buddies have to say about this particular recall.

[DLRambo]

So if someone like me with 28 yrs home inspection experience, on top of a degree in HVAC and 6 yrs in the HVAC industry moved to california last summer - if I did an inspection on one of these furnaces some dimwit could be saying "THE HOME INSPECTOR MISSED ....".

This stuff is getting real old. I try to imagine going through a 20-40 year old house, trying to look at and record model & serial numbers of appliances, A/C units, furnaces, ceiling fans, garage door openers, etc so I can go home and look these up on a possible RECALL LIST and it occurs to me I probably wouldn't have the time to do a real good home inspection.

[chrisprickett]

If you moved to Anthem, AZ after being in the engineering field, with 28 years in the HI biz, and you failed to note in your report that Anthem is smack dab in the middle of major expansive soils zone, you'd be liable- even though we clearly are not required to comment on soil conditions. If you hang your HI shingle in a particular area, the eyes of the court will see you as the "authority".

Don't get me wrong Rambo, I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm just giving you the reality.

[Scottpat]

You have to know about the area you live in, many parts of the country have area specific quarks. I had a major learning curve learning about basements and different types of foundations when I moved to TN from MS.

[hausdok]

Hi,

I agree with Chris. There are recalls that affect everyone across the country and then there are regional recalls. In my area, if you weren't aware of the Cadet heater recall, you could find yourself in hot water. It's just the nature of the beast.

I have a very thick looseleaf binder that's full of printouts of every recall I could put my hands on. It resides permanently in the little throne room where I'm forced, due to IBS, to spend an inordinate amount of time, and every once in a while I'll crack it open and study a recall that I haven't read before. It wasn't hard to put together. I went to the CPSC website somewhere around 1998 and then searched for recalls by product. Then I printed out anything that I thought could remotely apply to a home inspector. After that, it was just a matter of scanning everything in the book once, in order to become generally acquainted with the stuff, and then occasionally studying it in more depth to re-familiarize myself with some recalls while learning more about newer ones. After that, I visited the site regularly to obtain new recalls and since 2002 I've been posting them to TIJ. Every time I post a recall to TIJ, it ends up printed out and is added to that book.

The ones that I'm more likely to encounter on a daily basis - Cadetco heater recalls, L-P siding, dishwashers, water heaters and gas control valves - I keep a separate copy of those in my vehicle for direct access while I'm on-site. Still, I agree with you, I think it's impossible to know about every single recall there is out there, but I don't think any reasonable person expects you to, any more than they expect every single doctor to know the side effects of every single medicine in every drug store, or any judge can know the intricate details of every single case that's ever been tried. As long as you do your best to stay as current as you can, I don't think any reasonable client, judge or jury will ever fault you for it. It's only when you take a, I don't bother with that because it's too much trouble, stance that I think you open yourself to liability.

My opinion, worth what you paid to get it. I'm not a jurist and don't play one on TV.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[rjw]

FWIW, I emailed the columnist and got a less than thrilling response

My email:

On Jan 2, 2007, at 7:25 AM, Bob Walker wrote:

> In your Nov 18 column on Premier and NOX rods., you left out a key point: was the home in California - or say, Maine?

>

> Since the reports of thge recall all said they were installed in CA, as a mid-west inspector, it is not an issue I've paid much attention to, and the there are other fiurnaces with "nox rods" (or something like them) which have not been recalled.

>

> I believe you have done a mis-service to our industry with such a blanket pronouncment of liability.

>

> You have pushed us over onto the slippery slope: at what point does an HI become responsible for know product recalls? At what point does a recall become widely enough publicized for an HI to be held to this new standard you are seeking to create?

>

> Respectfully

>

> Bob Walker

> NW Ohio

The Response

Dear Bob,

Your point is well taken regarding the specific locale of the Premier furnace recall. Please forgive that omission. However, I don't think this is going to push any Ohio inspectors "onto a slippery slope." My response in that article begins by stating that home inspectors "are not liable for product recalls notices", but that the case in question was an exception because of the high degree of publicity regarding those furnaces. A critical point in the article, however, is the fact that the Consolidated furnaces without NOX rods typically have observable safety-related problems. Specifically, the heat exchanges are often cracked, and in most cases, combustion exhaust vents from the burner access. These defects are often missed by home inspectors, HVAC contractors, and gas company technicians. Home inspectors should be wary of all Consolidated furnace, regardless of recall notices and regardless of whether NOX rods are installed.

Barry Stone