Lead Paint

[Terence McCann]

Around what year did lead base paint fall from favor?

[Bill Kibbel]

The CPSC banned the sale of lead-based paint for use in residences in 1978. There are still many lead-based paints available for other applications.

[fqp25]

Houses built after 1978, could no longer contain lead paint. However I think it was pretty much extinct for residential use before then. The military kept using it, and I think road paint still has some lead.

[kurt]

Depends on where you're talking about. Lead based paint was banned by most of the industrialized European nations in the late 1870's, early 1880's, fully 100 years before we banned it in our country.

[hausdok]

Hi,

Manufacturing was banned in 1978 but paint suppliers were allowed to continue selling it until the end of 1980, in order to deplete stocks. It's entirely possible to have a home built in the early 1980's which has some lead containing paint if a painting contractor, taking advantage of the cheap cost of lead paint, stockpiled paint in late 1980.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Bill Kibbel]

Mike,

I'm quite sure that some stockpiling occurred at some level, but this is the first time I've heard of a grace period for permitting the sale of lead-containing paint through 1980. Where can I find documentation of this?

By the way, lead as a pigment was already significantly reduced before 1978. It was still present as a dryer though.

[hausdok]

Hi Bill,

I've got that somewhere here. About 8 years ago, while I was still a member of the Environmental Assessment Association, I took a lead inspection class put on by some fellow from Kurt's state that certified me for doing lead inspections in Illinois of all places. I've still got that literature someplace around here. I'll see if I can't dig it up tomorrow. PM me your fax number and when I find it I'll shoot it to you.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Rob Amaral]

Bill: Kudos on a fine job the other day in Newport, RI at the ASHI New England Conference.

PS-"Clinkers" is pronounced "Clinkizz" up here..!

[Bill Kibbel]

Thanks Mike.

I don't really need primary documentation, but if you could reveal the source, I would appreciate it. "Cuz Mike said so" would be good enough for me but others might want a more detailed origination.

Rob,

On Friday, I couldn't think of where I had seen your name before. Thanks for the compliment. I'm honored to have been invited and really enjoyed meeting the brethren from the Northeast. I didn't even make fun of how you guys speak (until I got home. Now I keep spouting chowdah and lobstah)

[hausdok]

Hi Bill,

I found it. It comes from the Basic Guide To Environmental Inspections, a publication of the Environmental Assessment Association. It's 2 lines on page 43. "Lead paint regulations were not issued until 1977 and any paint manufactured after that date should not contain harmful amounts of lead. However, the use of lead paint was not prohibited until 1980."

I still don't know where I read the discussion about existing inventories but it's indelibly printed on my memory, so it must have come from somewhere. I'll keep looking.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[swarga]

Many of the wondow blinds sold by Wal-Mart contained lead untill 1980. If you perform a lead swipe below these blinds you will get positive results.

[Les]

Bill,

I have some old class materials by LeadTec, a govt contractor that was approved for education of inspectors in 1994. They are hard copy, so if you will private e/m me with a fax number I will send it to you. Actually good stuff and laid out quite well 8-9pgs.

les

[kurt]

I was licensed for 7 years in the heart of lead country, good ol' Chicago. I let my license lapse about 6 years ago because......

If there's one thing for sure in Chicago, lead is everywhere. It's in the yard, the gutter, on the woodwork, the windows, in the alley, in the garden, and just about anywhere else one might want to look.

There was a good study that came out a couple years ago that figured out that the greatest risk for lead wasn't even in homes; it was "out there" somewhere. Education & individuals taking responsibility is much, much better than trying to figure it out through EPA protocols.

[Les]

Kurt,

You are right about lead and education. We have lived thru the XRF's, license, and the rest of the "scares". Lead is everywhere.

About a decade ago, I had the office personell tell folks, that wanted to know about lead, that we would find lead in their house for a fee and that fee starts at $750.00. No takers. We do talk extensively about lead during the inspection of older houses.

This thread reminds me there are alot of inspectors that do not know much about lead and how it was/is used. Seems there is a whole bunch of "Inspector Lore" about it. The PSA's really stirred things up in the 1990's. I insisted my kids and grandchildren be tested for lead and a benchmark established as early as 1986. The result is the grandkid that is "goofy" is clean as a whistle, so it must have been the genes!

Lead is a SERIOUS problem, but one that is handled with knowledge and education! COMMON SENSE

[kurt]

Yes. Serious, w/tragic possiblities should it go undetected.

I also had my daughter checked about 4 times a year from a very early age; the pediatrician thought I was nuts, but I know better.

Did you know that tomatoes grown right next to your (old) home can have toxic levels of lead? Yep, draws it right out of the ground & we slice it up & put it on our samwich's.

That's a fairly new study, done right in my neighborhood, by a friend/customer who is a research med @ NW. It can be anywhere & everywhere.

Diligence is virtue. Beware.

[hausdok]

Hi,

Still digging around. In all of my lead stuff I found a 4-page informational paper entitled Lead Issues that, close as I can tell, I wrote in 1997. Danged if I can remember writing it, but it reads like I wrote it. I'd cited a few sources that are here in my office and I'd included a paragraph in there about what I would charge for lead inspections, along with my name and phone number, so it was definitely written by me. It's apparent that I'd written it to be used as a handout, so I guess it's something that I used to hand out to clients, but I can't remember writing it. Jeez, and I just turned 55. Man, if that isn't a sign of early onset Alzheimer's, what is? Looks like I'll have the intellect of a turnip by the time I'm 65. Oh well, some of my teachers in high school were convinced I was that way back in the 60's, so what's the dif?

I'd turn it into an article or a download document at TIJ, except that, since I can't remember writing it, I can't be sure that 100% of it is written in my own words and I don't want anyone to later accuse me of plagiarism. Tell you what, I'll re-write it, update a couple of paragraphs and eliminate the paragraph that explains what I'll charge for lead inspections, and e-mail it to anyone that thinks they'll have a use for it. Just PM me to let me know that you want it and I'll try to get it re-written in a day or two.

While doing this digging, I have noticed a common thread - that the federal register and just about every government document cites the CPSC banning of lead paint in 1978 but also states that the odds of finding lead in homes built before 1980 are high, which tells me that I definitely didn't dream this up. There has to be a basis for those statements, or else the feds would be saying before 1978.

Still on the hunt. The guy who taught the course was a fellow named Derek Lynn from a company called Enviro-Vision Inc. He's an Environmental Engineer, and OSHA approved instructor and an accredited trainer with the State of Illinois. Maybe the best way to track this down would be to shoot him an email. I'll do that and let you guys know what I get.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[hausdok]

Hi,

Yeah, tomatoes have high levels of phosphates don't they? Planting sunflowers, which have a high level of phosphates, around a home was one of the methods taught in that course to clean up the soil. Seems they will pull the lead right out of the soil somehow because the phosphate and lead molecules bind to one another. Apparently, 2 - 3 years after planting them around a home the lead level in soil will substantially drop. It's also why TSP and rags soaked in TSP are the preferred cleaning agent.

ToO complicated for my pea-sized brain but I'll accept it until someone tells me it's hogwash and can prove it to be inaccurate.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Bill Kibbel]

I think Terry was just looking for a simple one word answer and it looks like this will eventually be a 2 page discussion.

I don't want anyone to go out of their way to provide documentation, but I'm just one of those types that likes to have accurate information, including unimportant minute details. (That's why I visit TIJ!)

I have publications from the CPSC that clearly state things like: "In 1978, the CPSC banned the sale of paint containing in excess of 0.06% lead intended for consumer use". In fact, every official source that I have doesn't even mention a ban on the production.

When there is a consumer product ban issued by the CPSC, it includes an effective date. I was under the impression that all distribution in commerce related to that product should cease by that date.

Again, I'm not saying lead-containing paint isn't a possibility in a house constructed in 1980.

[Terence McCann]

I enjoy a lot of discussion on a topic, it's quality nutrition for the Grey matter.

[hausdok]

Hi,

Just got home. I'll continue poking around tonight and tomorrow and see if I can find it. By the way Bill, the CPSC ban was on lead paint for residential use. That's probably why you're not seeing a ban on production.

OT - OF!!!

Mike

[kurt]

It's still pretty effective stuff in the marine trade; I know a couple guys that have gallons of "the good stuff" stockpiled for bedding deck fittings & hardware.

[MMustola]

My bother inlaw is a self employeed sign painter. He still buys and uses lead paint today. It's certinly unlikey to find lead paint in a newer home but not out of the question. People bring stuff home every day from their jobs and use it in their homes.