How would you write this up?

[homnspector]

This is a 2004 house, probably selling in the 1m range. How would you write up this rat's nest? Everything seems to be correct except maybe multiple grounds under the bus lugs, but what a mess.

Download Attachment: ratsnest.jpg

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[mgbinspect]

It makes me dizzy, Fritz.

[kurt]

What about the conduit fill out the back? Those pipes look like they're stuffed >60%.

[homnspector]

Good point. I think they are just passing through the panel or a fitting, no conduit that I saw in the attic or crawl.

[charlieb]

Dizzy IS the word.

Down here in the south we have separate service and distribution panels.

Since this is the "main disconnect panel" the intermixing of grounded and bonding conductors is acceptable?

With the quantity of NM present is bundling an issue in the wall or attic?

The pride of the tradesman is obvious.

[Jerry Simon]

"Since this is the "main disconnect panel" the intermixing of grounded and bonding conductors is acceptable?"

What's a bonding conductor?

[mgbinspect]

Now, Charlie...

That electrician might have been bustin' buttons that he was able to get all that wire through those two small holes and not trim any of the wire he pulled. []

[Neal Lewis]

I would say there are too many breakers in the panel box.

[Chad Fabry]

42 are allowed.

Excessive insulation.

Conduit overfill.

No bushings.

Unidentified conductor top left, I suggest an electrician estimate and ultimately rectify all issues discussed here and others as they are discovered during exhumation.

[hausdok]

Exhumation?!!!?

[StevenT]

Isn't 1/2" of insulation coming into the panel box the limit on nm cable?

Where is the neutral service conductor?

[kurt]

Yeah. What Mikey said.

I thought that meant digging something up, as in corpse.

When youse be teaching the noob's, talk like you are, as in normal. Nobody uses words like "ultimately rectify upon exhumation" except the Californicator's and the ITA'er's.

This might have some stinker component, but I don't think it's dead.

[charlieb]

Originally posted by Jerry Simon

"Since this is the "main disconnect panel" the intermixing of grounded and bonding conductors is acceptable?"

What's a bonding conductor?

That would be the na-kid wire

[charlieb]

Kurt,

"noob's" ???

[Brian G]

Originally posted by Chad Fabry

42 are allowed.

I'm glad the NEC finally came right out and said so to.

I'd say "bonding conductor" is a contradiction in terms. That which is bonded is never meant to be a conductor.

That's some really sloppy work. It reminds me of another saying I should have posted in the other thread.

"Every job is a portrait of the person who did it."id="maroon">

Brian G.

Sloppy Work Sucks, But It Feeds My Kids []

[StevenT]

originally posted by charlieb

Since this is the "main disconnect panel" the intermixing of grounded and bonding conductors is acceptable?

I think he means grounds and neutrals

But once again, why is there no neutral service conductor?

[homnspector]

"Sloppy Work Sucks, But It Feeds My Kids"

I like that!

Neutral is hidden somewhere in the rats nest. Sort of like a "Where's Waldo"

[Richard Moore]

Looks like a metal bar between the panel's two neutral/ground bars under the breakers. It's located bewteen the 3rd and 4th poles down. I suspect that bar extends into the meter base where the neutral service connection is made (and presumably also the GECs?).

[Chad Fabry]

Originally posted by kurt

Yeah. What Mikey said.

I thought that meant digging something up, as in corpse.

When youse be teaching the noob's, talk like you are, as in normal. Nobody uses words like "ultimately rectify upon exhumation" except the Californicator's and the ITA'er's.

This might have some stinker component, but I don't think it's dead.

Ever hear of hyperbole? sheesh

[kurt]

Originally posted by Chad Fabry

Ever hear of hyperbole? sheesh

Oh. I'm sorry. You sounded serious for a minute. Maybe I was having an out of body experience, or something.....

[homnspector]

"Ever hear of hyperbole? sheesh

No, I wasn't even looking for that, but you can't see much with all them wires.[:-boggled

[Brian G]

I had another thought about the 42 circuit thing last night. To have 42 circuits you must have a 225 amp main, not a 200. The max for a 200 is 40 circuits. I could swear I see 200 on that main handle.

As always, check the label to be 100% certain, but I've never seen a 200 amp 42 circuit panel by any manufacturer.

Brian G.

Ultimately Rectifying My Original Post [:-dev3][][:-dev3]

[BlackJack]

Where is the Service Eq. Gnd Wire?

[Richard Moore]

Originally posted by Brian G.

... To have 42 circuits you must have a 225 amp main, not a 200. The max for a 200 is 40 circuits.

As always, check the label to be 100% certain, but I've never seen a 200 amp 42 circuit panel by any manufacturer.

Brian, where did you get that from? Cutler Hammer appears to make mostly panels rated for 225 amps. That, of course, doesn't mean you have to have a 225 amp main breaker. But, nowhere in their literature (or the NEC) does it state that a 200 amp main restricts the number of allowable circuit poles to 40.

[Brian G]

Originally posted by Richard Moore

Brian, where did you get that from? Cutler Hammer appears to make mostly panels rated for 225 amps. That, of course, doesn't mean you have to have a 225 amp main breaker. But, nowhere in their literature (or the NEC) does it state that a 200 amp main restricts the number of allowable circuit poles to 40.

It would be on the original box the panel came in and on the door or enclosure label. It isn't in the NEC, much like the 42 circuit limit never was until the last issue, but I know of no one who makes a panel with a 200 amp main that allows 42 circuits. As you pointed out, many panels are rated for 225 amps, but very few have 225 amp mains. The same is similarly true of "100 amp" panels, which are virtually all rated at 125 amps (though there is no 2 circuit bump for going with the 125 amp main for some reason).

The circuit limits are, and always have been, "de facto" limits arrived at by the manufacturers' electrical engineers, until the NEC adopted the 42 as the high end limit. One can say they aren't code and aren't "written" anywhere, but if no one ever has made a 200 panel with more than 40 circuits then any panel you find with more is wrong. I've had that arguement a few times, which is why I'm glad the NEC went ahead and codified at least the high end allowance. Now they need to do the same with the others.

100/125 amp 20 circuits

150 amp 30 circuits (I've heard talk of 32's, but haven't seen one in a 150)

200 amp 40 circuits

225 amp 42 circuits

If anyone can post a link to a residential panel spec sheet (or label photo) that allows more than any of those I've listed, I'd love to know about it.

Brian G.

The Great Panelosticator [^]