Siding Identification

[Jim Katen]

Does anyone know what brand of siding this is?

It's a hardboard product, like the old Masonite x-90, but the back side is smooth. There's no screen texture that I usually see on Masonite brand products. I also don't remember ever seeing this particular pattern on Masonite.

It was installed in 1978.

The exposure is 8".

Butt joints were covered with aluminum H-channel.

Could it be Masonite without the screen texture on the back?

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Download Attachment: Siding.JPG

81.77 KB

Download Attachment: SidingClose.JPG

78.55 KB

[paul burrell]

Originally posted by Jim Katen

Does anyone know what brand of siding this is?

It's a hardboard product, like the old Masonite x-90, but the back side is smooth. There's no screen texture that I usually see on Masonite brand products. I also don't remember ever seeing this particular pattern on Masonite.

It was installed in 1978.

The exposure is 8".

Butt joints were covered with aluminum H-channel.

Could it be Masonite without the screen texture on the back?

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Download Attachment: Siding.JPG

81.77 KB

Download Attachment: SidingClose.JPG

78.55 KB

Jim this does not look like Masonite to me either. There are several brands of pressed board siding that is all under a class action lawsuit as you may know. None of the pressed board products are used for siding in my area anymore. If I had to guess I would say it is a Georgia Pacific product. But there are several look alikes so that would just be a guess. I tell my customers the only way to identify for sure is take a board off and look for markings on back side. The knot hole patter/size in your picture is different than the distinctive Louisiana Pacific pattern.

Pressed board siding is a big problem in my area and has killed deals because of it's bad condition.

Paul Burrell

[BlackJack]

I had the exact same product on my house, pressed wood and no markings on the back at all. I was told it could not be identified for class action replacement, also it was too old (1982) and had reached the end of its useful life. They sure used allot of this product in my neighborhood. Never did find out the manufacturer. I replaced it in 2002 with Hardiplank.

[mwg27]

Originally posted by Jim Katen

Does anyone know what brand of siding this is?

It's a hardboard product, like the old Masonite x-90, but the back side is smooth. There's no screen texture that I usually see on Masonite brand products. I also don't remember ever seeing this particular pattern on Masonite.

It was installed in 1978.

The exposure is 8".

Butt joints were covered with aluminum H-channel.

Could it be Masonite without the screen texture on the back?

- Jim Katen, Oregon

It looks to be in good shape from the pics... I'd label it a 'Masonite type' siding without a manufacturer specific reference...

[hausdok]

Hi Jim

Have you got The Siding Book? I loaned mine to a fellow months ago and he's apparently forgotten that he has it because it hasn't been returned (hint-hint). I think I saw that produce in there but I can't say for certain. Getting old, not remembering so well anymore.

Possibly a Forestex, ABTCo, Smurfit or L-P's Canexel product?

Sure wish I had my Siding Book here.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Jim Katen]

Originally posted by hausdok

Hi Jim

Have you got The Siding Book? I loaned mine to a fellow months ago and he's apparently forgotten that he has it because it hasn't been returned (hint-hint). I think I saw that produce in there but I can't say for certain. Getting old, not remembering so well anymore.

Possibly a Forestex, ABTCo, Smurfit or L-P's Canexel product?

Sure wish I had my Siding Book here.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

I have both editions of The Siding Book. It's no help. I sent these pics to the folks who publish it. They're helping to chase it down too.

So far, I've found a Masonite product called "Woodsman" that looks very similar. There's also Georgia Pacific's Catawba siding, but I think it's too recent a product. Both of these have the same flat zebra look.

This isn't exactly a home inspection. The owner inherited the house and is trying to sell it. So far three deals have failed, all because of the siding. In each case, the buyer's inspector told them that he couldn't identify the siding, but that he thought it was bad and had to go.

The seller is pulling his hair out. He feels like he can't trust the advice of inspectors who can't even identify the siding. Apparently one inspector told him that the siding might be cedar or redwood. (!?!)

He's hired me to find out exactly what this stuff is, and whether or not it needs to be replaced.

Beyond telling him that it's hardboard and "Masonite-like" I've told him that two sides have to be replaced but that the two remaining sides are in fine shape.

We shall see. . .

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[paul burrell]

Dosen't matter what the name of hardboard siding is. The buyer is buying someone else's problem. Personally I would not buy pressed board siding home unless the home was priced under market enough to re side home. The seller is having problem selling home and down the line the new buyer could have same problem.

Paul Burrell

[hausdok]

Hi,

Interesting case today. Home being sold by an architect/do-it-yourselfer. The buyer is a lawyer transferring here from Chi Town. Mr. Architect apparently re-sided his own house with L-P Smart Lap back in 1997 (Of possibly 1995 - I'll address that later.). The house was a pleasant pale green color with stained trim. Nice color combination. This fellow never sealed any end grain, never back-primed it,didn't caulk butts or end-to-trim joints, didn't use head flashings, Z-flashings or mounting blocks for exterior fixtures and installed it within an inch of grade. Face nailed all of it. On the east and north sides - the non-weather sides, it's still doing okay. On the south and west sides, the weather sides, it's delaminating and swelling.

Yep, I hear you Jim. Going, "What? I've never seen Smart Lap fail!" but this is failing. However, not through any fault of the product I'm afraid. You know that nice pale green color? It's the original factory-applied primer. He never bothered to paint it and after 9 (possibly 11) years in this climate without ever being sealed it finally began to swell and has started to check along the drip edges.

The disclosure documents said that the siding had been done in 1997 but other notes provided by the homeowner said that it had been re-sided in 1995, so after I found the delam I was convinced it had to be the pre-'96 InnerSeal. That is, until I inspected the garage workshop and found some of the stuff on his woodrack and checked it out and found a sticker on it - SmartStart - a narrow starter course and knew it had to be the newer stuff.

Now, L-P might have refused to pay for damage to some of the stuff but probably would have paid him something under the warranty if it had been properly caulked and painted. Now I doubt that they'll pay a cent. I make it to be about 20 squares, not including an allowance for waste. I'm thinking $15K on the low side and $20 - $22K on the high side. Pretty expensive screwup for an architect, no?

Jim, I googled 'hardboard siding' and was amazed at how many different products are out there. There are actually a lot of products made by smaller companies that most of us have probably never heard of. That might be what you've got there. Any chance that someone remembers the contractor or there might have been a permit issued for the reside job that will name the contractor so you can call 'em and ask 'em what they put on there?

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[kurt]

Interesting.

I don't know about anyone else, but as soon as I hear "an architect did it for himself", I always go on 5 alarm alert. There's always bonehead ignorant mistakes in the most elementary aspects of the job. I did one Monday where the first thing out of the realtorzoids headhole was "the architect-owner did all the work himself". Mr. Arkytect thought is was a good idea to cut all the knob & tube off @ the bsmt. ceiling & tag onto all of it w/new BX, left all the 110 year old plumbing in place, had a heating system that had about 15-20% return air, a 4 layer roof on the original cedar shingles, etc., etc...

Of course, the granite countertops were the finest available.....

[Les]

Say Kurt, did it have one of them pull out squirters and pressed cardboard floors?

[hausdok]

Hi Jim,

Some good news (I think). I was talking to L-P this morning about another issue when I mentioned this little scavanger hunt. The rep asked me to point him to the site and as soon as he pulled up the photo he said it was a G-P product but then when he heard that it wasn't screened on the back wasn't so sure. A little while later he called me back to inform me that he'd talked to some of his colleagues and had learned that some G-P products are not screened on the back and that it really depends on where it was made.

I then went to the G-P site, called their toll-free number and the operator redirected me to Blue Linx, the outfit that took over the distribution operation for G-P. Left a message and a while later a very helpful fellow named Eric called back. I directed him to your photos and he said that it looks like it's G-P's Catawba Sundance line.

If it is that product, the class action closed about 3-4 years ago but it has a 30-year warranty (pro-rated) so it might be possible to make a warranty claim. If so, tell him not to expect much once the stuff has been pro-rated.

It sounds like it really isn't worth the trouble. I'd just tell him to tear it off and replace it with Hardi-Plank.

Hope this helps.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[kurt]

Originally posted by Les

Say Kurt, did it have one of them pull out squirters and pressed cardboard floors?

Of course it had the squirter, along w/the multi-nozzle gayboy turbo shower. Thankfully, no pressed cardboard flooring.

[Jim Katen]

Originally posted by hausdok

Hi Jim,

Some good news (I think). I was talking to L-P this morning about another issue when I mentioned this little scavanger hunt. The rep asked me to point him to the site and as soon as he pulled up the photo he said it was a G-P product but then when he heard that it wasn't screened on the back wasn't so sure. A little while later he called me back to inform me that he'd talked to some of his colleagues and had learned that some G-P products are not screened on the back and that it really depends on where it was made.

I then went to the G-P site, called their toll-free number and the operator redirected me to Blue Linx, the outfit that took over the distribution operation for G-P. Left a message and a while later a very helpful fellow named Eric called back. I directed him to your photos and he said that it looks like it's G-P's Catawba Sundance line.

If it is that product, the class action closed about 3-4 years ago but it has a 30-year warranty (pro-rated) so it might be possible to make a warranty claim. If so, tell him not to expect much once the stuff has been pro-rated.

It sounds like it really isn't worth the trouble. I'd just tell him to tear it off and replace it with Hardi-Plank.

Hope this helps.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

Thanks Mike. My legwork has revealed almost the same thing. I actually have some photos of confirmed Catawba siding from a past siding consultation (see the attachment). It looks very much like the same critter, but not exactly the same. Notice the horizontal striations that are in my archive pics (meant to simulate wood grain), but not in the pics of this week's stuff.

I've also attached a pic of unknown siding from a past inspection. It looks similar to this week's stuff but lacks the vertical striations that are supposed to represent bandsaw marks.

Also, the GP rep I talked to told me that they didn't release the Catawba product till 1979 and this house was completed in 1978. Now that's pretty close, so I'm not ruling it out, I just want to know if there are alternative possibilities.

The Masonite Woodsman product looks about as close to it as the GP stuff, but I confirmed that Woodsman had a screen-like texture on the backside. This stuff is smooth as a baby's butt.

I suppose the next step is to start pulling pieces.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Download Attachment: UnknownSiding.jpg

80.69 KB

Download Attachment: Catawba2.jpg

89.95 KB

Download Attachment: Catawba1.jpg

77.04 KB

[mgbinspect]

This thread peaks my curiosity.

Naturally, when there is Masonite or press board siding on a house I call out any swelled, delaminating or deteriorating material and include a statement about the possibility of the siding being one of many defective sidings involved in class-action suits and investigate further.

How far do you guys go in reporting these sidings?

[Jim Katen]

Originally posted by mgbinspect

This thread peaks my curiosity.

Naturally, when there is Masonite or press board siding on a house I call out any swelled, delaminating or deteriorating material and include a statement about the possibility of the siding being one of many defective sidings involved in class-action suits and investigate further.

How far do you guys go in reporting these sidings?

In a normal home inspection, I try my best to identify the siding. If it's one of the various wood mcnugget (Walter Jowers term) products, I tell them one of two things. Either it's bad and has to be replaced. Or it looks fine today but it might go bad tomorrow and have to be replaced. I try never to use the "investigate further" phrase unless it's to recommend pulling something apart to find out what's beneath.

To help me identify these products, I carry "The Siding Book" that Mike mentioned earlier. It's published by Siding Solutions, a local siding consultation group.

However, this isn't a home inspection. I was hired to answer two questions with as much certainty as it's possible to muster. What type and brand of siding is on the house? Should it be replaced?

I can answer the second question. Two sides clearly need to be replaced. The other two look very good. There's no functional failure on those two sides.

The answer to the first question still eludes me.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[hausdok]

South and West sides, right?

OT - OF!!!

M.

[mgbinspect]

Hmmm... sounds like a relatively easy and informative service to add. Guess I should look into the book. Thanks.

[Jim Katen]

Originally posted by hausdok

South and West sides, right?

OT - OF!!!

M.

South and east actually. That's odd for our area. Usually, as you say, the south & west are the worst.

Go figure.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[BADAIR]

I know I've unearthed a ancient post but can anyone definitively identify this as Masonite

Click to Enlarge

68.76 KB

Click to Enlarge

74.24 KB

Click to Enlarge

75.87 KB

Click to Enlarge

72.74 KB

Click to Enlarge

40.47 KB

[Jim Katen]

I know I've unearthed a ancient post but can anyone definitively identify this as Masonite

Yes. In the fourth picture, the X 90 is definitely Masonite.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[BADAIR]

I know I've unearthed a ancient post but can anyone definitively identify this as Masonite

Yes. In the fourth picture, the X 90 is definitely Masonite.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

I use to be able to remember things like that, THANKS!

[hausdok]

Hi All,

Jim, et al can anyone remember the name of that PPG flexible paint that contractors were using about 10 years ago to rescue houses with LP siding and has anyone down in Oregon seen any of those houses to know how they've been holding up?

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Jim Katen]

Hi All,

Jim, et al can anyone remember the name of that PPG flexible paint that contractors were using about 10 years ago to rescue houses with LP siding and has anyone down in Oregon seen any of those houses to know how they've been holding up?

That'd be Parker Paint's Flex Bind.

It seems to work remarkably well on the installations I've seen. Some are well over 10 years old now.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[hausdok]

Thanks Jim!

OT - OF!!!

M.

[randynavarro]

Thread resurrection #2.

I came across the same stuff as Jim K's product from 5 years ago.

Anyone ever get any definitive answers?

FWIW, I actually see this stuff once or twice a year around here. With exception of today's inspection, the siding does remarkably well.

Click to Enlarge

41.23 KB

Click to Enlarge

50.94 KB