No vapor barrier behind stone veneer?

[JSARG4]

We removed a window on a home as part of a remodel and were surprised to find there is no vapor barrier between the masonry work and the OSB sheathing. The home was built in early 2000s in Dallas, TX with a full stone veneer, so it’s about 5-6” thick Austin stone. How did this ever pass a building inspection?  I guess it had to, but I am surprised there is no vapor barrier behind this stone.  From what I can tell there is no mold on the visible sheathing.  In the photo the green board and black tape are covering the opening left by the window. The original OSB is visible behind the stone. 

[Marc]

Lucky. Here's to continued good luck.

[JSARG4]

I don't like to rely on luck 😬

Is this construction against code?  Or is a vapor barrier not "required" because of the full stone veneer (as apposed to thin stone veneer)?

Thanks for any and all insights.

[Mike Lamb]

Code pretty much says don't let outside water get inside. You should look at the manufacturer's instructions.

Or 

https://ncma.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/MSV_InstallationGuide_5thEd_4thPrinting.pdf

[BADAIR]

On 7/13/2021 at 9:05 PM, JSARG4 said:

We removed a window on a home as part of a remodel and were surprised to find there is no vapor barrier between the masonry work and the OSB sheathing. The home was built in early 2000s in Dallas, TX with a full stone veneer, so it’s about 5-6” thick Austin stone. How did this ever pass a building inspection?  I guess it had to, but I am surprised there is no vapor barrier behind this stone.  From what I can tell there is no mold on the visible sheathing.  In the photo the green board and black tape are covering the opening left by the window. The original OSB is visible behind the stone. 

i've worked the dfw & farther markets for over 24 years

municipal inspectors will allow almost anything to pass & exercise sovereign immunity, they are not consumer protection advocates, they work for a system whose main purpose is to collect more taxes, improved property brings in much more revenue than a vacant lot

that being said, there was a long period where "code required" wrb were not required over exterior substrate sheathing of any type for any exterior cladding

glad to see you've encountered slight moisture intrusion vs. many of the props i've inspected

I don't have Text Available please call or email only

 

Best Regards,

 

Barry Adair
Owner-Professional Inspector-Moisture Analyst-Infrared Thermographer
Commercial-Residential-Construction-EIFS-Stucco-Exterior Claddings Inspections

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[mgbinspect]

On 7/13/2021 at 10:05 PM, JSARG4 said:

We removed a window on a home as part of a remodel and were surprised to find there is no vapor barrier between the masonry work and the OSB sheathing. The home was built in early 2000s in Dallas, TX with a full stone veneer, so it’s about 5-6” thick Austin stone. How did this ever pass a building inspection?  I guess it had to, but I am surprised there is no vapor barrier behind this stone.  From what I can tell there is no mold on the visible sheathing.  In the photo the green board and black tape are covering the opening left by the window. The original OSB is visible behind the stone. 

I always installed a layer of 30 lb. felt paper behind our stonework, and would not ever install stone in the manner you posted here. But, this does confirm what I've been saying for years - moisture does not typically intrude much through properly installed masonry. It is usually Voids in head and bed joints that permit moisture to intrude. In this instance, stone is not very absorbent and stone mortar is typically high in cement, so moisture intrusion is not usually a big issue.

[Chad Fabry]

You're the luckiest person on Earth if there's no damage. After five years in the northeast, your house would be a compost heap.    

[BADAIR]

1 hour ago, Chad Fabry said:

You're the luckiest person on Earth if there's no damage. After five years in the northeast, your house would be a compost heap. 

often seen down here

known as wazwood or vertical mulch

Edited February 25, 2022 by BADAIR

[John Dirks Jr]

On 7/15/2021 at 10:27 PM, Mike Lamb said:

Code pretty much says don't let outside water get inside. You should look at the manufacturer's instructions.

Or 

https://ncma.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/MSV_InstallationGuide_5thEd_4thPrinting.pdf

I'm not sure if I can tell from the picture if the veneer is manufactured stone or natural stone.  I'm curious if the NCMA document could be challenged when it comes to natural stone.  Either way, the practices they recommend are good in either case.   However, could someone argue that the document is intended to address manufactured stone specifically and dismiss our using it to back up reporting in the event of a natural stone application?

[BADAIR]

49 minutes ago, John Dirks Jr said:

I'm not sure if I can tell from the picture if the veneer is manufactured stone or natural stone.  I'm curious if the NCMA document could be challenged when it comes to natural stone.  Either way, the practices they recommend are good in either case.   However, could someone argue that the document is intended to address manufactured stone specifically and dismiss our using it to back up reporting in the event of a natural stone application?

John, i have a Benjamin, says it's natural stone

Adhered Manufactured Stone Veneer (AMSV) would have a stucco like base atop the osb

also down here amsv is a very rare choice

[mark parlee]

John, there is a document on installation of natural stone in an adhered method. Follows a lot of the same details as the MVMA or the NCMA-MSV guide. You can find it here.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=adhered+natural+stone+installation+guide&atb=v314-1&ia=web

There is some misleading info regarding the way the lath is installed and its nailing pattern that does not agree with code or that of the various ASTM documents, but that is for a longer in-depth conversation.

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by mark parlee