Erby Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 For my learning knowledge, not the report. It's already been sent. Two story on a poured wall basement with a poured wall a couple of feet high and then a knee wall at the back of the basement. I see some water stains at the bottom of the knee wall and lift a bit of insulation to see what's going on. A bit of water damage so I then remove most of the insulation to expose the extent of the damage. It was pretty bad. Sheathing so rotten I could stick my finger through it to the brick veneer. Studs rotted away so I could put my hand between the stud and where the sheathing was supposed to be. Sill plate you could push your finger into. Yes, a water resistant barrier was installed behind the vinyl above this area. Obviously, a fault in the wall covering and flashing above. QUESTION: How the heck do you fix rotted sheathing, studs and sill plate behind a brick veneer? Click to Enlarge 47.61 KB Click to Enlarge 64.15 KB Click to Enlarge 39.87 KB Click to Enlarge 41.41 KB Click to Enlarge 47.7 KB Click to Enlarge 43.61 KB Click to Enlarge 39.65 KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjr6550 Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 You tear off the veneer and start over because with damage like that the WRB and flashingsee need to be replaced also. Anything less is a bandaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Amaral Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 Exactly.. 'do it over'... rip off the veener.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 The studs can be replaced one-by-one and the sheathing isn't really that important with the shear strength provided by the walls above. Replacing the sill might even be possible by supporting the two stories with a temp wall positioned a few feet from the rotted wall. But if the WRB is compromised or if large areas of sheathing must be replaced, I see no way to do it without removing the brickwork. The stain pattern suggest more of a flashing issue at the siding/veneer junction than anything else. Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erby Posted August 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 I couldn't think of another way than to rip it off and start over either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Hockstein Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 We worked on a Jersey Shore home with severe termite damage behind brick veneer. The damage was discovered as part of the aftermath of Super Storm Sandy (the termite problem would not have been found for many more years if not for the need to remove the interior wall finishes). After consulting with multiple contractors about how to repair the framing, the consensus was that the best way to repair the structure was to take the veneer down. In the end, it was also the less costly option. In your case it will likely be easier to diagnose and repair the water penetration problem with the veneer removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 Mark (and everyone else) is right. It's a rain screen and you can't fix a rain screen without starting over because all the important stuff goes in long before the brick goes up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erby Posted August 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 Doesn't really matter. The deal was dead within a minute of showing it to the client and her agent. The listing agent seemed to think she could have someone fix it easily without tear off. Client, her agent and I didn't spend much time arguing with her. Just walked away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 Something we've learned in the repair biz..... there ain't no repair for a messed up rain screen. Actually, it's not like we learned it, it's more like the lesson gets driven home harder every time you open up this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Baird Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 Times I have found jaw-dropping dealbreakers I offer to stop and bill client by the hour, with only a letter to issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 Times I have found jaw-dropping dealbreakers I offer to stop and bill client by the hour, with only a letter to issue. I do that too. Clients like it and they remember me. 'Spiritual Capitalism' it's called. Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erby Posted August 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 I've done that more than a few times. Unfortunately, this was found at the last of the inspection. I'd already done the outside, both floors, roof, attic and utilities. Should have (and probably will in the future) look closer at back walls like that before it's gone too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 I know time has passed, but it is possible to repair a brick veneer wall from the inside when client wishes to not remove brick. Expensive and time consuming and can lead to future discover and ever increasing cost. Repairs involves supporting existing floor and roof above. Removal of exiting wall. Building a new framed wall with sheathing (ZipWall) (Huber Engineering). Fastening/anchoring per plan. Using special fasteners to tie in existing brick to new wall framing. Charles Click to Enlarge 105.9 KB Click to Enlarge 36.85 KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 It's easy to "repair" the structure, but it's impossible to repair the flashings, which is what made the repair necessary in the first place. Yes, one could partially dismantle the masonry needing flashing...relatively simple at the windows, but time consuming and a PITA where the brick bears on the foundation, and buy the time one is done dinking around trying to save brick, it's easier to strip the brick and get it all the way right. Kelly (my builder bro) was actually hired by a guy in Florida constructing a monument to poor taste.... that had a succession of Florida builders and engineers all proposing the most idiotic and nonfunctional "waterproofing solutions"....to come down and get the flashing, ventilation and waterproofing right. He got it right. It was one of the first major visible successes of Wickrighttm. What is it in Florida? The heat? Humidity? No one gets flashing down there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 We like caulk and flexible flashing tape! Charles Click to Enlarge 58.45 KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 woof...... While I like the idea of zip panels and tape, it seems to entirely contradict the dictums of Joe where you get the layers (water/air control) integrated and working as a system. I really do wonder what the outcome of Zip panels is going to be. It seems like Florida could be the perfect testing ground for all the goofy things the building industry comes up with. It's like all the builders down there are hell bent on disproving high school physics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjr6550 Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 I know time has passed, but it is possible to repair a brick veneer wall from the inside when client wishes to not remove brick. Expensive and time consuming and can lead to future discover and ever increasing cost. Repairs involves supporting existing floor and roof above. Removal of exiting wall. Building a new framed wall with sheathing (ZipWall) (Huber Engineering). Fastening/anchoring per plan. Using special fasteners to tie in existing brick to new wall framing. Charles Click to Enlarge 105.9 KB Click to Enlarge 36.85 KB You are assuming that the brick veneer will not move during the process, or will be supported. Then you are creating many holes in the zip sheathing to install the (very expensive) fasteners. Anything is possible, but almost nobody would get the details correct. If they found a way to do this properly it would probably cost way more than just rebuilding it correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark parlee Posted August 18, 2016 Report Share Posted August 18, 2016 Kurt I do mostly water intrusion and construction defects investigations these days. I am also doing consulting on a couple of big projects that are new construction. These are 4 story wood framed buildings one with Zip and one with Tyvek. We have been doing testing on the Zip and guess what... We are going to have an 80k SF building that has zip on it, and they are putting on a Tyvek rain coat. The testing revealed some things that are not good. More to come on this. I am now getting feedback on three other projects around the country experiencing similar problems. You got my number, give me a call and I will fill you in if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjr6550 Posted August 19, 2016 Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 I view Zip sheathing as a good air barrier and more forgiving if water gets past the WRB(s). I would not use it as a WRB. I have no evidence to back that up. Just my opinion. Its could be a very expensive mistake to trust it as a WRB. I would wait about 20 years or so before I would trust it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted August 19, 2016 Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 I'd love to hear about it. I agree with Mark. Too soon to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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