Securing Columns - Beams

[Mike Lamb]

If you had a mind to; how would you go about securing the column to foundation and beam to pier connections?

Click to Enlarge

54.32 KB

Click to Enlarge

41.16 KB

[Marc]

If it were me, I'd simply remove the piers and construct new ones in a way that is easy to secure at top and bottom. Sometimes you need to back-up a little first before you can continue forward.

Marc

[Chad Fabry]

Bondo or spray foam.

[Tom Raymond]

Gravity works pretty well in places not prone to quakes.

Accidentally shifting the column in the first pic would take far more force than most people imagine. Number 2 looks far scarier than it is.

[kurt]

Agreed. This is making up problems where none exist. It's stupid, but it's not a problem until the New Madrid fault let's go, and if that happens, I still doubt it would mean much because the entirety of Chicago is going to fall down.

[John Kogel]

In the earthquake zone, I would improve the shim under the I-beam with a steel plate or two.

In the first pic, I would build a form around the post and dump in some concrete. All this if it seemed necessary, that is.

[Mike Lamb]

Agreed. This is making up problems where none exist. It's stupid, but it's not a problem until the New Madrid fault let's go, and if that happens, I still doubt it would mean much because the entirety of Chicago is going to fall down.

I put in my report that these details will be important in the event of a catastrophe. Have you never felt a tremor in Chicago? I have.

[kurt]

I've felt a couple. The one in '87 was remarkable, but I didn't hear about anything falling down.

No one is ever going to repair those things in a thousand years. I can't get people to fix stair railings or install more GFCI's; getting them to repair posts in case of an earthquake....I don't think so.

I wouldn't say anything in a HI report about those posts; let them come after me when the city is aflame and in shambles. I'll hide out in the ruins with the rest of the dystopian horde.

'87 was the one where Governor Big Jim Thompson requested an engineering study to determine what would happen if the big one hit. The report stated that the entire city would fall down and it would take billions to reinforce all the buildings that needed reinforcing to prevent it from falling down.

In typical legislative response, the report was promptly dismissed and forgotten.

[MMustola]

What about high winds or tornado's, couldn't they lift of twist a structure enough to take pressure off those post's? If so the post's could shift or fall down then wind the winds died down you could have a major failure that might not have happened if the post's were secured.

[John Kogel]

It is a fault in the design or the execution of a simple job, building a building. Most likely the AHJ of the time never saw those faults. But you did so, call it out. No harm in pointing out flaws. JMO, opinions will vary. []

[mjr6550]

I can think of a few ways. At the bottom, the easiest think to do would be to place blocking between the column and the adjacent studs. Then lag bolt a 2x to each side of the studs and sill. That would prevent movement in both directions (not that movement is likely to occur).

For the pier, if edge distances permitted a wood block could be anchored to the top of the pier with masonry anchors and then the beam could be attached to the block with lag bolts. it would not even be necessary to drill through the flanges. Placing the bolts adjacent to the flanges with fender washers overhanging the flanges would be fine.

[kurt]

All good points, but there is so much unbelievably lousy crap in Chicago, I guess I draw the line at stuff that, very simply, no one cares about and no one will ever repair. Ever. It's hard enough to get people to care about stuff that effects them immediately; filling out reports with vague and highly unlikely possibilities gets kinda silly.

If there's a tornado, the place blows apart. If there's an earthquake, it all falls down. We got enough high wind to feel reasonably secure that nothing's going to blow away.

[Marc]

We should report what we think may be a significant problem. Doesn't matter if they're gonna fix it or not.

I'm not condoning inspectors who report every dang little thing. Just what you think actually needs attention and let the client be the judge on whether to take action or shelve it.

I mighta said a little something about the beam's weight centered so close to the edge of the concrete pier but I'd likely ignore the pipe.

Marc

[Darren]

I found these a couple of weeks ago where they replaced all the columns.

Click to Enlarge

39.99 KB

Click to Enlarge

28.89 KB

[Tom Raymond]

I was home alone in the 80s when a wood fired boiler in the basement exploded. Circulator failed. Hard water fouled the TPR and it failed. Wasn't hot enough to blow the soft plug in the water jacket. The pressure wave from the blast lifted the house and all the columns tipped. Every last one. The greatest movement we 3/8". Not worth fixing.

The same pressure wave threw a 100+ pound iron fire door 30 feet across the basement and crushed a washing machine.

If those columns move you have bigger problems to worry about.

[kurt]

I guess that's what I'm saying. If something happens to make those columns move a centimeter, there's a lot more going a whole lot worse, and column creep is a superfluity.

To the point about putting it all in there and letting the client decide, sure, of course.

OTOH, they hired me with the idea I'd sort through this stuff so they wouldn't have to.

[Mike Lamb]

Off topic sort of. When I pointed out at a new construction job that the top of the basement steel columns were not tightly bolted to the beams above, the builder told me this was done intentionally to allow the house to settle before tightening the bolts. Has anyone ever heard of that? Sounds like malarkey.

[kurt]

Malarkey.

[Eric B]

If you had a mind to; how would you go about securing the column to foundation and beam to pier connections?

To answer the question - Weld brackets to the steel column and beam then bolt the brackets to the concrete.

To answer the question that wasn't asked - I wouldn't bother doing anything.