Mike Lamb Posted October 13, 2015 Report Posted October 13, 2015 I looked at a circulating boiler and saw no pressure reducing valve anywhere. The pressure reading at the boiler gauge was around 12 psi which is fine. Do some boilers have the valve hidden inside the boiler housing? It was a 1978 Weil-McLain.
kurt Posted October 13, 2015 Report Posted October 13, 2015 Are you sure there isn't one of those little inline jobs?
Mike Lamb Posted October 13, 2015 Author Report Posted October 13, 2015 I guess there must be. There was a small inline valve I figured was for back flow prevention. I thought pressure reducing valves looked like a bell or cone.
John Kogel Posted October 13, 2015 Report Posted October 13, 2015 Here's a link to a manual. Page 25 for plumbing hookup. http://www.weil-mclain.com/en/multimedi ... 6_0703.pdf Page 29 shows a standard reducing valve installed externally, not hidden.
Bill Kibbel Posted October 13, 2015 Report Posted October 13, 2015 I've seen thousands of boilers with only a manual feed valve. I've never heard of an internal reducing valve. The bell shaped device is typically a Bell & Gosset pressure reducing valve. There are other types of automatic fill valves including one common type that is part of the "Fill-Trol" expansion tank assembly.
kurt Posted October 14, 2015 Report Posted October 14, 2015 How do the thousands of boilers without pressure reducing valves regulate pressure in the system?
Bill Kibbel Posted October 14, 2015 Report Posted October 14, 2015 How do the thousands of boilers without pressure reducing valves regulate pressure in the system? Like I wrote - with a manual feed valve.
kurt Posted October 14, 2015 Report Posted October 14, 2015 How does a manual feed valve regulate pressure in a system? Does anyone know? Mike, what I'm guessing is there is one of those little angled auto fill/pressure reducing valves at the expansion tank. Was it a bladder type tank?
plummen Posted October 14, 2015 Report Posted October 14, 2015 Most fill valves that Ive installed on boilers have a pressure reducing valve plumbed in line with them from the factory. Ive got a hot water boiler to service tomorrow,Ill try and get a picture of it if I get over there tomorrow.
Bill Kibbel Posted October 14, 2015 Report Posted October 14, 2015 How does a manual feed valve regulate pressure in a system? How does the pressure in the system get to 12psi with a manual valve? Does anyone know? By adding water if needed. Around here, most boilers did not have a pressure regulator/reducing valve or auto feed before the 1960s. Just a manual valve to add water to the closed system if needed. I've even seen some boilers installed within this decade with only a manual feed (but with a check valve and sometimes a low-water cutoff). I have a 1950s boiler at another house with only a manual feed. Can't remember the last time I had to add water.
Bill Kibbel Posted October 14, 2015 Report Posted October 14, 2015 http://inspectapedia.com/heat/Water_Fee ... .php#FVMan
kurt Posted October 14, 2015 Report Posted October 14, 2015 How does one get 12 psi in a system tied to a city water supply? When one opens the valve, it's city pressure. When one closes the valve, it's.......what? Of course one can manually fill a system. How does one regulate pressure manually?
Bill Kibbel Posted October 14, 2015 Report Posted October 14, 2015 How does one get 12 psi in a system tied to a city water supply? When one opens the valve, it's city pressure. When one closes the valve, it's.......what? Of course one can manually fill a system. How does one regulate pressure manually? Um - you close the fill valve when it reaches the desired pressure.
kurt Posted October 14, 2015 Report Posted October 14, 2015 I was wondering if that was what you were actually proposing. Amazing. People in NJ do this a lot....(?)... Thousands of boilers with people standing there regulating pressure by opening and closing valves....(?)....
Chad Fabry Posted October 14, 2015 Report Posted October 14, 2015 I was wondering if that was what you were actually proposing. Amazing. People in NJ do this a lot....(?)... Thousands of boilers with people standing there regulating pressure by opening and closing valves....(?).... When things are right, it needs only be done once every thirty years or so.
Mike Lamb Posted October 14, 2015 Author Report Posted October 14, 2015 Mike, what I'm guessing is there is one of those little angled auto fill/pressure reducing valves at the expansion tank. Was it a bladder type tank? It was an old galv. steel tank located in the attic.
kurt Posted October 14, 2015 Report Posted October 14, 2015 When things are right, it needs only be done once every thirty years or so. Just goes to show....something. Not sure what. Not sure what "right" means either. I always thought "right" meant someone setting the system up with a PRV and/or autofill of some type. The only time I see systems lacking a pressure reducing valve/auto fill setup are troglodyte jobs. Someone fill me in here.....are we arguing that no PRV or autofill is all right and smart?
kurt Posted October 14, 2015 Report Posted October 14, 2015 It was an old galv. steel tank located in the attic. Someone still using the old tank in the attic could mean mean there's no PRV. In fact, it probably does. Regardless, I'd be telling them to enter the 20th century, and preferably the 21st, and get a bladder tank and PRV/autofill.
Chad Fabry Posted October 14, 2015 Report Posted October 14, 2015 Someone fill me in here.....are we arguing that no PRV or autofill is all right and smart? A PRV is a must. On a system with a low water shut off, the lack of an autofill becomes an early warning device to alert the operator that there's a leak somewhere. Clearly, I'd suggest installing an autofill. That said, three of my four boilers do not have one.
mjr6550 Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 The lack of a pressure regulating valve is perfectly normal around here, especially with older systems. When the pressure is low, you add some water. Of course many people don't and then the gauge reads low. Often when I check a third floor radiator there is no pressure. Sometimes air get sucked back into the bleed valve. We apparently do a lot of things different around here.
kurt Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 We apparently do a lot of things different around here. That's what I'm trying to figure out. Not having a PRV, around here anyway, is remarkable. No, it's more like jaw dropping. Trusting someone to actually fill their boiler is not in my repertoire. I can't imagine any customer of mine wanting to know how, let alone actually doing it.
Chad Fabry Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 Someone fill me in here.....are we arguing that no PRV or autofill is all right and smart? A PRV is a must. On a system with a low water shut off, the lack of an autofill becomes an early warning device to alert the operator that there's a leak somewhere. Clearly, I'd suggest installing an autofill. That said, three of my four boilers do not have one. I want to make sure that my post was clear. PRV means pressure RELEASE valve. The pressure reducing fill valve is a convenience, not a necessity. PRV's are essential.
kurt Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 Yeah, I know. I mix up the terms because I'm trying to stay current with the trend of using acronyms for everything, which I've shortened to TOUAFE. What I gather is folks out east insist it's fine to forgo pressure reducing valves because it's not necessary, it's entirely elective, and here (Chicago) it's the opposite. No pressure reducing is recognized as the realm of The Other. I am not applying social or interactional interpretations. Different areas are.....different, for no apparent reason. Actually, I'll apply one interpretation. It's an American thing. Americans do stuff their way. When we were installing the heating system in our apartment in Wuchang, I introduced the fellows to the idea of pressure reduction and autofill. They'd not heard of it, in addition to not knowing about primary/secondary loops, zone arrangements, air bleeders, or just about anything else. When I showed them a B&G device on the internet, the installers all made that sound Chinese make to indicate they get it. The sense of it immediately sunk in.
Jerry Simon Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 I can't imagine any customer of mine wanting to know how, let alone actually doing it. That's because 99% of your clients are yuppie-scum.
plummen Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 I was wondering if that was what you were actually proposing. Amazing. People in NJ do this a lot....(?)... Thousands of boilers with people standing there regulating pressure by opening and closing valves....(?).... When things are right, it needs only be done once every thirty years or so. So I take it youre not a fan of flushing/servicing boilers on a regular basis?
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