Chad Fabry Posted June 24, 2015 Author Report Posted June 24, 2015 I designed the roof. Then I built it. I designed it and built it with the intent of installing terne coated steel. Now I changed my mind. I cannot design the flashing or the system details for a system until I choose the system because all the different system details tend to vary a bit. I'll remove the siding and the roof decking and tweak out the corner boards so regardless of which product I choose, I'll be able to imbricate the layers to shed water and use the building's exterior fabric as my counter-flashing. I designed the decking to be anti splash so that the three roofs that spill onto the balcony can continue to do so with inflicting harm on the structure. I could put on some gutters, but concealing a 7 inch crown wasn't in the original design criteria. I like you Kurt... I think you know that but possibly, aside from me, you may be the best bet to place in the "Most Condescending" contest. Seriously, I plan things down to efficiencies in my arm's range of motion. So here I am, choosing a product so I can design the details.
kurt Posted June 24, 2015 Report Posted June 24, 2015 It isn't condescension. It's loud overbearing insistence on how to think about roofing. I don't give a rat's ass how many acres of roofing someone's installed; they might be doing it right, but they might not be thinking about it right. When I finally shut up and started seeking out people that know something (re: PM's on big commercial projects, preferably hospitals), I started to learn something. I learned that I didn't understand how to do roofing. I'm explaining how to do roofing. HI's, as a group, trend toward thinking they're being insulted instead of being schooled. I shut up and stopped taking advice as an affront, and the world opened up. The whole world's a school. I'm actively enrolled.
Chad Fabry Posted June 24, 2015 Author Report Posted June 24, 2015 I'm not insulted. I was just giving you some advice on how to better communicate your thoughts. Now, back to finding some fiberglass trim stock.
kurt Posted June 24, 2015 Report Posted June 24, 2015 I did a fine job of communicating my thoughts. Folks just don't like the delivery or the thoughts. I stopped being pleasant and warm a long time ago. Actually, I've never been pleasant and warm. Time on large scale projects isn't ever pleasant and warm. It's a lot of screaming and yelling by guys with hairy knuckles for 16 hour days. I like the guys with hairy knuckles. They know stuff. The revolution is not a dinner party......Mao Tse Tung Neither is the inspection business.
Marc Posted June 24, 2015 Report Posted June 24, 2015 ...and now we return to our regularly scheduled programming. [] Marc
Chad Fabry Posted June 25, 2015 Author Report Posted June 25, 2015 ...and now we return to our regularly scheduled programming. [] Marc Marc, Kurt and I would talk to each other like this even in person. We're blunt and our feeling aren't easily bruised. Or, are you saying we're irregular?
Erby Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 Direct expression leaves little doubt. Beating around the bush leaves lots of doubt. I think most of us prefer direct expression, even when it's "loud overbearing insistence". Makes us think about the way we're thinking.
Tom Raymond Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 If you have nearly a grand in material on site, why are you still shopping? Terne will outlast glass. I nearly put terne on my whole house, I missed the tax credits that would have made it cost effective. I have enough asphalt on the ground to do the porches, now that school is out my boy will be learning to lay shingles.
John Kogel Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 This house I'm in has a fiberglassed deck, 22 years old and just as good as new. The color is put in the gelcoat so you never paint it. And you can drag chairs around on it. Of course you will plan where the drains will go and slope the deck accordingly. Letting water run off wherever is a mistake.
Jim Katen Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 . . . Originally I intended on using soldered seam terne coated steel and I have the steel and accessories in stock, but now I'm not convinced it's the best choice. . . . Why don't you want to use the terne? From what I know of your house, it seems like the *right* choice.
Chad Fabry Posted June 25, 2015 Author Report Posted June 25, 2015 Soldered seam terne, like the soldered seam copper I did over my bay will be a very, very time consuming process. But now that you've made me feel guilt, I'll knock up a sample set of pans and solder them to see how well it goes.
kurt Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 In the amount of time we've argued about membranes, you could have the thing soldered and done. Why are you taking up our valuable time with trifling?
Marc Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 ...and now we return to our regularly scheduled programming. [] Marc Marc, Kurt and I would talk to each other like this even in person. We're blunt and our feeling aren't easily bruised. Or, are you saying we're irregular? Heck, the whole bunch of you 'top tier' TIJers are irregular. Marc
mjr6550 Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 Soldered seam terne, like the soldered seam copper I did over my bay will be a very, very time consuming process. But now that you've made me feel guilt, I'll knock up a sample set of pans and solder them to see how well it goes. Is there enough pitch for standing seams in the field? I have 1/4inch per foot of pitch, so yes there is, but it's a balcony.
Chad Fabry Posted June 26, 2015 Author Report Posted June 26, 2015 There's a 1/4 inch per foot so yes, there's enough. But it's a balcony and I want a walking surface.
Nolan Kienitz Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 For those feeling just a bit "irregular" there are some treatments for such ... Click to Enlarge 27.26 KB
Chad Fabry Posted July 8, 2015 Author Report Posted July 8, 2015 I figured someone might be interested in this endeavor. I made some sample pans and soldered them with a pair of 3 lb irons that were happy to be used again. It went smooth. Much easier than soldering 20 oz. copper. Still, using irons that were probably last used a hundred years ago is slow. When I first take them off the heat, they're too hot to hold a tinning and then once in use, they cool down before the next iron is ready. It's a slow process. I bought this-it should speed things up a bit. Click to Enlarge 60.54 KB This is one of the rolls of terne. I cut it into pieces of 18 x24 Click to Enlarge 72.66 KB I scribed each piece on each side to mark the brake lines. Click to Enlarge 44.55 KB Then I cut off each corner about 1/16th in inside the the scribed intersection. You do this so the bent sides don't lap each other and so there's clearance to slide the pans together. Click to Enlarge 37.47 KB Then, on my box brake, I bent two adjacent sides one way and the other two adjacent sides the other way to make the pans. I cleaned the protective finish off before I bent the pans. Cleaning the protective finish off was the most time consuming part of the process Click to Enlarge 38.1 KB Click to Enlarge 35.06 KB Click to Enlarge 29.27 KB
Marc Posted July 9, 2015 Report Posted July 9, 2015 An old timer at a sheet metal shop I use for AC condensate pans still uses an iron but it's got that burner you have mounted on top. The burner keeps the iron at target temperature but the solder never sees the flame. Amazing joints. Marc
kurt Posted July 10, 2015 Report Posted July 10, 2015 I like it because it's what you originally planned, and I have a soft spot for nicely soldered pans and flashing details. If you can get it done before Alana decides she's had enough and kicks you into the blueberry patch, even better.
Bob K Posted July 17, 2015 Report Posted July 17, 2015 My bet is on the mod bit. TPO is ok as long as it's glued down instead of mechanically fastened. Fully adhered. But... Ventilation is key. In flow at the facia - I hide the vent panel under the perimeter edge flashing and out flow behind a sheet metal detail at the back roof to wall. Consider also a receiver flashing to terminate the siding above and be able to maintain the roof termination below. I haven't the means to send a drawing now. May as well toss in some mushroom spores and harvest the shrooms next year without venting. Otherwise you may become a customer if mine and I'll charge you out the--- to repair it. No offense telling you about roofing since you've laid up so much but this is what keeps gas in my boat.
Chad Fabry Posted August 25, 2015 Author Report Posted August 25, 2015 Finally got some time to do this. I struggled with the soldering at first but realized that the bars I was using were cast and they had a bunch o shit cast into them. I had had other 1/2 lb bars that were extruded and they worked fine - 60/40. Working the pans for the field, I could probably make and install 75 sq feet a day. On a job like this where 50% of the pans are easy and the balance are made-to-fit, I could manage just 50sq feet a day. Measure, make the pan, clean the mill finish, flux, install the cleats after you flux them, flux the seams, smash the seams, clean and flux again, then solder. I have the counter flashing left to do. I'll slide it under the felt and bring it to the first solder seam below the cant strip. I clean the mill finish with MEK or laquer thinner, then I use zinc choride for flux, then lead based solder with an open flame iron. The most one could hope for is is 150 sf a day- I guess I understand why the practice and even Follansbee have fallen into memories. Click to Enlarge.jpg].jpg] 35.77 KB Click to Enlarge 104.35 KB Click to Enlarge 41.18 KB Click to Enlarge 38.4 KB
Marc Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 Not trying to be a dick here, but the solder seams I've seen are thick enough to completely prevent telegraphing of the seams. Can't tell exactly where they are anymore. Also, when done, it looks a lot like stick welding in that you can see the side-to-side sweep of the bead, just wider and thicker. Marc
Jim Katen Posted August 25, 2015 Report Posted August 25, 2015 I clean the mill finish with MEK or laquer thinner, then I use zinc choride for flux, then lead based solder with an open flame iron. The most one could hope for is is 150 sf a day- I guess I understand why the practice and even Follansbee have fallen into memories. Yes, but it looks way cooler than some lame-ass mod bit would have looked.
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