Making Inspections more fun & productive

[Nolan Kienitz]

And then ... those of us in Texas follow this template.

Download Attachment: REI-7-5-PropertyInspectionReport.pdf

127.69 KB

[Marc]

And then ... those of us in Texas follow this template.

Download Attachment: REI-7-5-PropertyInspectionReport.pdf

127.69?KB

Just wondering Nolan, how do you like this template?

Marc

[scottb1978]

Can someone give me some guidance as to what the situation is with the reports.

- What templates does everyone start with

- What changes do you normally make to them

- Are there other ways of doing them that aren't common but make more sense to the customer

- What jobs suit which templates styles

I've been thinking about having super flexible report templating and it adds to the complexity of the application quite a bit. It could come later but to start with I was thinking instead to have an extensive list of standard reports that you can either export straight to pdf or to another format (word?) where you can make further changes.

[John Kogel]

Can someone give me some guidance as to what the situation is with the reports.

- What templates does everyone start with

- What changes do you normally make to them

- Are there other ways of doing them that aren't common but make more sense to the customer

- What jobs suit which templates styles

I've been thinking about having super flexible report templating and it adds to the complexity of the application quite a bit. It could come later but to start with I was thinking instead to have an extensive list of standard reports that you can either export straight to pdf or to another format (word?) where you can make further changes.

When I bought HI Pro in 2007 these same questions were being asked and answered. You could search Dom's website which has a forum with archives and a search function. Same approach, a dozen or so templates to choose from, Texas templates, earthquake templates, 4-point templates, and then you customize it yourself. HI Pro can be customized on the fly as you write the report and that report can become a template. Simple.

I'm not seeing anything new here, in other words. What amazing breakthrough do you have for us?

[inspector57]

Can someone give me some guidance as to what the situation is with the reports.

- What templates does everyone start with

- What changes do you normally make to them

- Are there other ways of doing them that aren't common but make more sense to the customer

- What jobs suit which templates styles

I've been thinking about having super flexible report templating and it adds to the complexity of the application quite a bit. It could come later but to start with I was thinking instead to have an extensive list of standard reports that you can either export straight to pdf or to another format (word?) where you can make further changes.

When I bought HI Pro in 2007 these same questions were being asked and answered. You could search Dom's website which has a forum with archives and a search function. Same approach, a dozen or so templates to choose from, Texas templates, earthquake templates, 4-point templates, and then you customize it yourself. HI Pro can be customized on the fly as you write the report and that report can become a template. Simple.

I'm not seeing anything new here, in other words. What amazing breakthrough do you have for us?

Agreed.

I too use HIP and although I'm definitely no expert in use or configuration, the software seems to already do pretty much everything listed.

I use an iPad mini in the field and pretty much write the report while I'm onsite and use a separate camera for everything.

Sync the iPad through wireless network to my home computer, plug in the SD card and batch load all of the photos. I look at each photo exactly once and chose to use it or not and where it goes in the report and generate the report. The photo editing software is much quicker than my old method of searching for the photo and pasting into the report back when I used Word.

I do use the optional hosting "in the cloud" which also sends out links to the client and agent automatically as soon as I upload the finished report.

The term "reinventing the wheel" keeps going through my mind.

[scottb1978]

Can someone give me some guidance as to what the situation is with the reports.

- What templates does everyone start with

- What changes do you normally make to them

- Are there other ways of doing them that aren't common but make more sense to the customer

- What jobs suit which templates styles

I've been thinking about having super flexible report templating and it adds to the complexity of the application quite a bit. It could come later but to start with I was thinking instead to have an extensive list of standard reports that you can either export straight to pdf or to another format (word?) where you can make further changes.

When I bought HI Pro in 2007 these same questions were being asked and answered. You could search Dom's website which has a forum with archives and a search function. Same approach, a dozen or so templates to choose from, Texas templates, earthquake templates, 4-point templates, and then you customize it yourself. HI Pro can be customized on the fly as you write the report and that report can become a template. Simple.

I'm not seeing anything new here, in other words. What amazing breakthrough do you have for us?

Agreed.

I too use HIP and although I'm definitely no expert in use or configuration, the software seems to already do pretty much everything listed.

I use an iPad mini in the field and pretty much write the report while I'm onsite and use a separate camera for everything.

Sync the iPad through wireless network to my home computer, plug in the SD card and batch load all of the photos. I look at each photo exactly once and chose to use it or not and where it goes in the report and generate the report. The photo editing software is much quicker than my old method of searching for the photo and pasting into the report back when I used Word.

I do use the optional hosting "in the cloud" which also sends out links to the client and agent automatically as soon as I upload the finished report.

The term "reinventing the wheel" keeps going through my mind.

Thanks for the tip with the report info.

Based on past feedback it seems like the ipad & onsite data capture option doesn't work for everyone. From this survey there are still quite a few people that aren't using HI Pro and plenty still using plain old word.

Home Inspector Pro

11

Homegauge

5

3D

7

Inspect It

2

Palm-Tech

2

Horizon

8

ReportHost

0

My own designed proprietary reporting program on Word

16

Total 51

To be fair you guys probably wouldn't be the target market anyway. HI Pro and onsite data capture with an ipad works for you so you are happy but what about everyone else. I'm curious why these people are still using word if there are perfectly good wheels out there.

The whole point of this process it to identify if there is a pain point that needs to be solved and if people are prepared to pay for it.

After I have done a few iterations on this mockup the next stage is to create an offer(like a kickstarter) where people can invest and become founding members for special benefits.

[Erby]

There's already plenty of wheels out there for those who chose to use them.

Those who are prepared to pay for it have already paid for HomeGauge or HIP or some other set of wheels. Those who haven't probably won't.

Everything I'm seeing on your set up is already in HomeGauge in better form.

What's going to be so special about yours that I'd give up on HomeGauge or Jim or John giving up their HIP?

[Marc]

Can someone give me some guidance as to what the situation is with the reports.

- What templates does everyone start with

Download Attachment: Cover.doc

135.06 KB

Download Attachment: TOC.doc

31.64?KB

Download Attachment: Body.doc

44.95?KB

For some reason, the uplink changed all the double columns to single columns. Only the findings below each header are double columns. Cover, summary, TOC are single column.

Anyone who wants the .docx version, let me know.

- What changes do you normally make to them

Rearrange, substitute client name, address, etc

- Are there other ways of doing them that aren't common but make more sense to the customer

Not I. I just adapt this one template.

- What jobs suit which templates styles

I've been thinking about having super flexible report templating and it adds to the complexity of the application quite a bit. It could come later but to start with I was thinking instead to have an extensive list of standard reports that you can either export straight to pdf or to another format (word?) where you can make further changes.

As long as the inspector doesn't have to repeat the changes he made to the template every time he does a report.

Marc

[Nolan Kienitz]

And then ... those of us in Texas follow this template.

Download Attachment: REI-7-5-PropertyInspectionReport.pdf

127.69?KB

Just wondering Nolan, how do you like this template?

Marc

As for "liking" the template ... that is a subjective question/answer. We (as inspectors licensed in Texas) don't have any choice. We are required to use the template.

Now, as for my personal opinion about "liking" it or not. I don't have any problem with it. It has the topic headings for all elements for a home inspection so that is already done for me. Now, how I present the information below each topic heading is fully free-form. I can do what I want (still following some TREC guidelines). I pretty much choose a bullet point style with images. I like lots of images. Pictures are worth a thousand words and as Kurt M. has commented many times over the society today does not have nor take the time to actually "read" things. Also, unless one is careful to be sure to write in a 'common language' the client won't understand one word written.

Inspectors seem to be so full of themselves and feel that they are Pulitzer Prize Winning Authors ... they (me included) are truly NOT. We're geeks of some nature and unless we use spell check our work looks like it is produced by a 3rd grader.

So ... I can format and do anything I'm comfortable producing under each topic heading.

Link below is a sample/redacted report I provided a client in May-2013.

Sample/Redacted Report - Texas TREC

[Marc]

I can't stand check boxes of any sort but yours is the first I've seen that seems redeemed by what you've done with it. Well written.

It's like the injured cook in MASH that stays on to turn powdered eggs, etc into tasty meals, at least for a while before returning to the front lines.

Marc

[Jim Katen]

. . . I'm curious why these people are still using word if there are perfectly good wheels out there. . .

Because Word can be made into a pretty powerful wheel. One that I greatly prefer to any of the DB systems that I've see so far. It allows me to work within the final document from beginning to end, with access to Word's entire range of editing tools at any point throughout the report writing process. With a good customization package (I use Mark Cramer's Intelligent Reporter software), I can drop any one of thousands of my own comments into any spot in the report at any time with a click or two. I can customize the comments on the spot, or write entirely new comments on-the-fly. At any moment in the report writing process, I can scroll through the report and see the finished product as it takes shape.

Picture management is pretty good with IR, but it's even better with an add-on called Photo Drop, made by the fellow who manages this forum. I place the curser where I want the photo, click the photo, and I'm done.

I'm perfectly aware of the capabilities of most of the database programs out there. (One of my partners uses HomeGauge, another uses Palm Tech. I've looked hard at HIP, just because Dom is such a likable guy.) So far, they don't offer the slightest attraction to me and that's why I'm "still using Word."

[Nolan Kienitz]

I can't stand check boxes of any sort but yours is the first I've seen that seems redeemed by what you've done with it. Well written.

It's like the injured cook in MASH that stays on to turn powdered eggs, etc into tasty meals, at least for a while before returning to the front lines.

Marc

TREC requires the 4 checkboxes (I, NI, NP & D). Every time the report goes under review an attempt is made to get rid of them, but the people who make the final go/no for any changes continue to "demand" the checkboxes. Those people are the board of TREC and they are all agents, brokers and the like. No inspectors on the TREC commission.

Reason they say they want the checkboxes is so their agents know what to look at in a report for what is broke and what is not broke. That tells you straight-a-way that even the TREC agents don't read the reports or want to spend time reading/reviewing them.

BTW - those are the only checkboxes that are 'required' in the template.

[Marc]

I can't stand check boxes of any sort but yours is the first I've seen that seems redeemed by what you've done with it. Well written.

It's like the injured cook in MASH that stays on to turn powdered eggs, etc into tasty meals, at least for a while before returning to the front lines.

Marc

TREC requires the 4 checkboxes (I, NI, NP & D). Every time the report goes under review an attempt is made to get rid of them, but the people who make the final go/no for any changes continue to "demand" the checkboxes. Those people are the board of TREC and they are all agents, brokers and the like. No inspectors on the TREC commission.

Reason they say they want the checkboxes is so their agents know what to look at in a report for what is broke and what is not broke. That tells you straight-a-way that even the TREC agents don't read the reports or want to spend time reading/reviewing them.

BTW - those are the only checkboxes that are 'required' in the template.

I'd take it to the legislature and argue that a regulatory body without any HIs on it's Board should not be dictating how an HI report should be written. The TREC Board members, being in a different profession, lack the qualifications. Also, agents don't have the same interests as buyers when it comes to inspection reports. They're actually fundamentally different since each benefits differently from a sale.

It may not arise above a pipe dream but there's truth in that argument, you think?

Marc

Feel free to split the thread. I can't do it.

[Marc]

. . . I'm curious why these people are still using word if there are perfectly good wheels out there. . .

Because Word can be made into a pretty powerful wheel. One that I greatly prefer to any of the DB systems that I've see so far. It allows me to work within the final document from beginning to end, with access to Word's entire range of editing tools at any point throughout the report writing process. With a good customization package (I use Mark Cramer's Intelligent Reporter software), I can drop any one of thousands of my own comments into any spot in the report at any time with a click or two. I can customize the comments on the spot, or write entirely new comments on-the-fly. At any moment in the report writing process, I can scroll through the report and see the finished product as it takes shape.

Picture management is pretty good with IR, but it's even better with an add-on called Photo Drop, made by the fellow who manages this forum. I place the curser where I want the photo, click the photo, and I'm done.

I'm perfectly aware of the capabilities of most of the database programs out there. (One of my partners uses HomeGauge, another uses Palm Tech. I've looked hard at HIP, just because Dom is such a likable guy.) So far, they don't offer the slightest attraction to me and that's why I'm "still using Word."

Seconded!

Marc

[kurt]

Word is powerful. No question. It's what old guys learned and are comfortable with.

The Texas form speaks to the problem, and there's a type of acceptable logic with it. Folks don't want to read this stuff. I don't blame them. Reading a word document HI report, even a Katen composed Word document HI report, is painful.

Old guys want the world to conform to them and their old ideas, not read the future and advance into it.

Word isn't the future. Not even close.

[Erby]

Because Word can be made into a pretty powerful wheel.

I am very proficient in Word and agree that it "can be made" into a powerful wheel.

If people are happy spending two to four hours writing a report, why change?

Problem is, I wanted get away from computer programmer to be a home inspector.

HomeGauge let's me quickly do all of what you pointed out with no programming, macros, etc.

Started off with Palm-Tech but didn't like having to caption every photo in the "photo album" separate from the report. After I got fed up with that and moved to HomeGauge, Palm-Tech switched so now you can put photos next to the comment in your report. Then along came HIP, which from what I've seen is a basic copy of HomeGauge. Now they're all similar.

Question is, why should any of us switch from what we're comfortable with to Scott's reinvented wheel? I don't see any overwhelming need for any of us to switch from what we're already happy with.

[Jim Katen]

Word is powerful. No question. It's what old guys learned and are comfortable with.

The Texas form speaks to the problem, and there's a type of acceptable logic with it. Folks don't want to read this stuff. I don't blame them. Reading a word document HI report, even a Katen composed Word document HI report, is painful.

Whether a report is or is not painful to read has nothing whatsoever to do with the program used to write it.

[Marc]

Software lacking vital features might well limit the inspector in generating a 'painless' report but that's not a major player, I don't think. It's more about generating the report in a format that's more appealing to more inspectors but with fewer keystrokes needed than Word. That's what Scott B aspires to do.

Marc

[Jim Katen]

Because Word can be made into a pretty powerful wheel.

I am very proficient in Word and agree that it "can be made" into a powerful wheel.

If people are happy spending two to four hours writing a report, why change?

Problem is, I wanted get away from computer programmer to be a home inspector.

HomeGauge let's me quickly do all of what you pointed out with no programming, macros, etc.

I haven't messed with programming, macros, and such since I set up the system initially. (And even then there was very little of that.) If you were having to mess with programming during the report-writing process, then you weren't using a very good adaptation of Word.

I work through my report in Word in very much the same way that you do in HG - in fact, I think that my workflow is more streamlined, at least compared to the workflow that I've seen my partner use.

There's nothing inherently faster about working with a database then there is when working with a word processor. Either one can be set up to be efficient or not efficient.

Question is, why should any of us switch from what we're comfortable with to Scott's reinvented wheel? I don't see any overwhelming need for any of us to switch from what we're already happy with.

I think that Scott's original question was, "where does it hurt?" His interest seems to be in providing solutions for those who are *not* happy.

[scottb1978]

I think that Scott's original question was, "where does it hurt?" His interest seems to be in providing solutions for those who are *not* happy.

For sure, if you don't want / feel you need to change then I'm not trying to "sell" you guys anything.

I'd be interested to hear what the younger guys coming into to the industry have to say about the current software on offer.

[kurt]

That's a big part of the problem, or it is the problem. There are few young guys. Very few. That there are folks arguing for Word indicates the general awareness of software possibilities. "It worked for me in '92, and what was good enough in '92 is good enough for......etc., etc.".......

[Jim Katen]

That's a big part of the problem, or it is the problem. There are few young guys. Very few. That there are folks arguing for Word indicates the general awareness of software possibilities. "It worked for me in '92, and what was good enough in '92 is good enough for......etc., etc.".......

And other old guys who listen with their ears shut.

[kurt]

And other old guys who listen with their ears shut.

No, not really. That's the knee jerk of anyone stuck in old thinking coming up with rejoinders for anyone pushing for new thinking. The better idea is to come up with a better idea, not imagine someone's not listening.

There are a lot of industries stuck in momentum based thinking. Home inspection is certainly stuck in it. It will change. It's changed radically for me over 30 years, with the real change being in the last 7-8 since the blow out.

Young people get most of what some of us have been preaching for a long time. Old people, almost not at all.

[Nolan Kienitz]

I can't stand check boxes of any sort but yours is the first I've seen that seems redeemed by what you've done with it. Well written.

It's like the injured cook in MASH that stays on to turn powdered eggs, etc into tasty meals, at least for a while before returning to the front lines.

Marc

TREC requires the 4 checkboxes (I, NI, NP & D). Every time the report goes under review an attempt is made to get rid of them, but the people who make the final go/no for any changes continue to "demand" the checkboxes. Those people are the board of TREC and they are all agents, brokers and the like. No inspectors on the TREC commission.

Reason they say they want the checkboxes is so their agents know what to look at in a report for what is broke and what is not broke. That tells you straight-a-way that even the TREC agents don't read the reports or want to spend time reading/reviewing them.

BTW - those are the only checkboxes that are 'required' in the template.

I'd take it to the legislature and argue that a regulatory body without any HIs on it's Board should not be dictating how an HI report should be written. The TREC Board members, being in a different profession, lack the qualifications. Also, agents don't have the same interests as buyers when it comes to inspection reports. They're actually fundamentally different since each benefits differently from a sale.

It may not arise above a pipe dream but there's truth in that argument, you think?

Marc

Feel free to split the thread. I can't do it.

Fully agree, but getting the Texas Legislature to change anything is close to impossible. Inspectors don't have the inside track/power to go against the real estate lobby that is huge and a part of the Texas Realtors Association. They have deep pockets and control over all agents including TREC.

Legislature is once every two years and getting something out of committee is a huge effort that is very difficult.

Now ... back to inspection report applications.

[kurt]

Yeah, Texas legislative issues.....woof.

I'm kinda liking Scott coming in here and getting a conversation going.

When "I" put my system together, I didn't do it. I went to a guy named Bob Bowers when he first got his business going, a business that now consults and builds reporting and data management systems for Genentech, Apple, and a number of other Fortune 500 companies. I was able to get in when the guy was starving and got lucky that he took on the project.

I learned a few things, the main one being I didn't know a tenth of what I thought I knew about data collection and management. The stuff I'm talking about is all drawn directly from what the big folks do; it's not me talking, I'm just feeding back what everyone else in the business knows.

The HI industry is still working on concepts and with software that are archaic. Jim arguing that Word is equally capable as a DB in managing information, particularly image management, displays what's wrong with the HI report world. Folks smart in one area are anointed as being smart in all areas. It's a common mistake in a lot of the world.

Cramer developed IR as a rational and intelligent response to what was then holding sway.....3 ring binder systems requiring all sorts of doofus activity to learn what the report was trying to say. Laptops were new, Cramer was smart, and it was a great thing for a little while, but only a little while.

We know a lot more about how people read, absorb information, and how that information is best managed, manipulated, and displayed. It's safe to say that anyone in my generation should not be looked upon to guide software development....which is why I went to Bob so long ago.

So, in addition to how we do this thing that we do, we should also be listening to any youngster that has an idea about it, because that's the group that will be using the information.

Or, we can remain curmudgeonly and ignore what every young person I talk to seems to already know.