Making Inspections more fun & productive

[kurt]

I'd talk to you eventually, I'm just busy right now.

Besides, I built a system that does what I need. Started in '91 on an Apple Powerbook 100 and refined until about 2000, then I rebuilt entirely it to integrate digital images and videos. Relational database in Filemaker Pro. Works great.

You seem like a nice, intelligent guy. Why do you want to mess up your life trying to convince HI's there are smart ways to do this thing?

[Marc]

I think you are saying people here are not willing to give your inspection app a fair try? Not so.

On the surface it appears that for many people inspections specifically could be improved alot but they have reached a point where they are content with the way they are doing it.

If that mindset doesn't change then it's a bit like the stove story. It doesn't matter how good the software is they won't be open to trying it.

I haven't committed to building anything yet I'm just trying to engage with you guys to see if there is a recognised need and desire to improve.

I need people who are prepared to spend some time talking to me about what they do and how they do it.

So far I have had one person agree to speak to me.

It's not the folks here, it's the current evolution of this profession. It's still in the early stages. That's one thing I like about it.

Can't expect everyone to agree on everything from the get go. Discussions like this lead to progress. Patience is needed.

Marc

[Jim Katen]

Carefully read my statement.

I want a system that does what that system purports to do. I have yet to be able to make it actually do what it says it does.

What are the top 5 things that it says it does that are most important to you.

1. Serve as a database to store all information about customers, inspections, and inspectors.

2. Serve as a scheduling program for multiple inspectors.

3. Automatically generate and email notices and documents to various parties as necessary. Pre-inspection agreements, radon notices, inspection time & place reminders, etc.

4. Provide a means to gather signatures on documents and store them with the appropriate client data.

5. Provide or integrate with a payment processing system to collect money from a customer and attribute it to the correct inspector.

The entire system needs to be accessible from multiple devices and by multiple inspectors - some who have limited computer skills.

[Jim Katen]

Look at Kurt. He has the perfect reporting system - just ask him - yet he's the only inspector on the planet who uses it.

I'm not aware of having ever claimed perfection, or anything near to it. I think my arguments involve form, content, and interface. This is an object lesson in why HI report formats (and lots of other things) are a problem; folks don't listen.

You know I know that. I just like to poke the bear with a stick now and then.

[kurt]

The bear is a grumpy old **** nowadays.

[Jim Katen]

In my current line of work we built an app for insurance home & contents assessors who could do an assessment with a tablet. Previously it was a clip-pad & pen job where they would then go back later and record the details into a system.

With the app the assessor can add rooms and then add items(ceiling, cornice, floorboard, window) & actions(replace, paint, etc.) for a trade type(painter, builder, etc.) as they are walking around.

They can take pictures using a digital camera or the camera in the device and attach them to the assessment & add notes.

They have a voice recorder around their neck where the voice file was attached to the assessment. This will probably later be done by the app aswell.

All of this can be done offline if need be and then synced to the server where a report is generated and the quote request process initiated etc.

All the room types, item types, actions, trade type etc. are data lists that are maintained and updated over time to make the process quicker for the assessors.

It sounds very similar to what you guys are doing with a HI.

There are several inspection reporting systems out there that work exactly as you've described. Some inspectors like them and some hate them.

These systems tend to provide very basic reports at a sort of lowest-common-denominator level.

I don't care for them because, in general, they don't accommodate custom narrative very well. I need to be able to write one-off comments on nearly every inspection. Sometimes those comments can be lengthy and I find them painful to write without a keyboard. I have tried voice recognition programs and, while they've come a long way, they still end up producing text that's riddled with errors and that requires very careful editing. One of my partners uses VR software (he can't touch type), but I find it much more time consuming that typing.

[Marc]

Carefully read my statement.

I want a system that does what that system purports to do. I have yet to be able to make it actually do what it says it does.

What are the top 5 things that it says it does that are most important to you.

1. Serve as a database to store all information about customers, inspections, and inspectors.

2. Serve as a scheduling program for multiple inspectors.

3. Automatically generate and email notices and documents to various parties as necessary. Pre-inspection agreements, radon notices, inspection time & place reminders, etc.

4. Provide a means to gather signatures on documents and store them with the appropriate client data.

5. Provide or integrate with a payment processing system to collect money from a customer and attribute it to the correct inspector.

The entire system needs to be accessible from multiple devices and by multiple inspectors - some who have limited computer skills.

Sounds like a job for the iCloud family of apps.

Marc

[Jim Katen]

Sounds like a job for the iCloud family of apps.

Marc

As far as I can tell, they don't integrate with one another to a sufficient degree to achieve the automation that we want.

[Jim Katen]

I think you are saying people here are not willing to give your inspection app a fair try? Not so.

On the surface it appears that for many people inspections specifically could be improved alot but they have reached a point where they are content with the way they are doing it.

That's true.

If that mindset doesn't change then it's a bit like the stove story. It doesn't matter how good the software is they won't be open to trying it.

That's not true. Inspectors, in general, are very open to new things. Especially new things that will save them time.

I haven't committed to building anything yet I'm just trying to engage with you guys to see if there is a recognised need and desire to improve.

Part of the problem that you're encountering is that we've had maybe several dozen people come here over the past 15 years or so, and tell us about how they were going to set the profession on its head with their nifty new ideas. As far as I know, they all faded away. So we get a little jaded.

I need people who are prepared to spend some time talking to me about what they do and how they do it.

So far I have had one person agree to speak to me.

At this time of year, in this market, most inspectors could teach bees a thing or two about being busy. You might have more success with a questionnaire.

[mlparham]

Carefully read my statement.

I want a system that does what that system purports to do. I have yet to be able to make it actually do what it says it does.

What are the top 5 things that it says it does that are most important to you.

1. Serve as a database to store all information about customers, inspections, and inspectors.

2. Serve as a scheduling program for multiple inspectors.

3. Automatically generate and email notices and documents to various parties as necessary. Pre-inspection agreements, radon notices, inspection time & place reminders, etc.

4. Provide a means to gather signatures on documents and store them with the appropriate client data.

5. Provide or integrate with a payment processing system to collect money from a customer and attribute it to the correct inspector.

The entire system needs to be accessible from multiple devices and by multiple inspectors - some who have limited computer skills.

HomeGauge will do that.

[Scottpat]

We did a survey of inspectors in our State a couple of weeks ago and one question was about what software they used to produce their report. We sent out 130 surveys and had 51 responses.

I found the results interesting.

Answer Choices:

Responses

Home Inspector Pro

11

Homegauge

5

3D

7

Inspect It

2

Palm-Tech

2

Horizon

8

ReportHost

0

My own designed proprietary reporting program on Word

16

Total 51

[Scottpat]

Carefully read my statement.

I want a system that does what that system purports to do. I have yet to be able to make it actually do what it says it does.

What are the top 5 things that it says it does that are most important to you.

1. Serve as a database to store all information about customers, inspections, and inspectors.

2. Serve as a scheduling program for multiple inspectors.

3. Automatically generate and email notices and documents to various parties as necessary. Pre-inspection agreements, radon notices, inspection time & place reminders, etc.

4. Provide a means to gather signatures on documents and store them with the appropriate client data.

5. Provide or integrate with a payment processing system to collect money from a customer and attribute it to the correct inspector.

The entire system needs to be accessible from multiple devices and by multiple inspectors - some who have limited computer skills.

HomeGauge will do that.

If I'm not mistaken HG does not do all of that but it allows you to sync with ISN. I don't think HG has a office management section, or does it? I use Home Inspector Pro with my own template and the only complaint I have with HIP is that it does not have an office management section built into the program, it supports syncing with ISN as the only way to do such task.

[Jim Katen]

. . . HomeGauge will do that.

One of my partners uses HomeGauge. They have what amounts to a database and a scheduler. If they can do the other stuff, they don't seem to want anyone to know about it.

[mjr6550]

I have used Word for 30 years. With a good number of standard comments, a few macros, and a template I can turn out a report on a clean house in a short time. Trouble is, I seldom inspect clean houses, I like to customize the wording for each report, and I often include 100 or more photos. That is was takes the time. HI software just doesn't work for me, but my reports are different than other HIs.

I use Access for data input and then can generate report headers for each page, invoices, schedule sheets, financial reports, etc.

I know all this can be done without Word and Access, but I don't know how and at this point in my life don't want to reinvent the wheel. If I was starting from scratch or was younger, then I would be interested in HI software, but if it could not be easily customized, I would not consider it.

[John Kogel]

. . . HomeGauge will do that.

One of my partners uses HomeGauge. They have what amounts to a database and a scheduler. If they can do the other stuff, they don't seem to want anyone to know about it.

Maybe check out Horizon. They do a decent job of scheduling for multiple inspectors and anyone that knows the PWs can access any of the data and the reports in the cloud. Pics are stored in the cloud as well but they are resized to large icon size.

[Jim Katen]

. . . HomeGauge will do that.

One of my partners uses HomeGauge. They have what amounts to a database and a scheduler. If they can do the other stuff, they don't seem to want anyone to know about it.

Maybe check out Horizon. They do a decent job of scheduling for multiple inspectors and anyone that knows the PWs can access any of the data and the reports in the cloud. Pics are stored in the cloud as well but they are resized to large icon size.

We really aren't looking for a new reporting system at all.

And the scheduling isn't the problem. We have a perfectly adequate system for storing information and scheduling. The problem is that it doesn't automate all of the little tasks that have to happened prior to and after each inspection. We'd like that stuff to become automatic - with a minimum of human input.

For instance, when our office manager schedules an inspection, she enters all of the information into a database. If she sets up the inspection with "Jim" and the customer wants a sewer scope and radon screening, then the office manager has to look up the fee, send out a contract to the customer, a notice to me, a home inspection notice to the agent, a notice about radon to the agent, a scheduling request to the radon guy, and a scheduling request to the sewer scope guy. If the inspection is in Washington, the contract has to be a WA contract, so that slightly alters the sequence. If the customer wants radon and not sewer (or sewer and not radon - or neither) then that alters the things that have to go out. Since there are 5 of us, there's a set of permutations like this for each inspector.

On a busy day, (most Mondays) she might have to do this for 20-25 inspections. Since she's fantastic at what she does, she can deal with this, but she occasionally goes on vacation and there's no way in hell that we can find someone else to do this for a few weeks a year, so we attempt it ourselves - and it invariably turns into a disaster. What we hope to do with ISN is have her enter the necessary information and then have the system take over all of the emailing of the various contracts and notices.

Can Horizon do that if we're not using their reporting system?

[scottb1978]

. . . HomeGauge will do that.

One of my partners uses HomeGauge. They have what amounts to a database and a scheduler. If they can do the other stuff, they don't seem to want anyone to know about it.

Maybe check out Horizon. They do a decent job of scheduling for multiple inspectors and anyone that knows the PWs can access any of the data and the reports in the cloud. Pics are stored in the cloud as well but they are resized to large icon size.

We really aren't looking for a new reporting system at all.

And the scheduling isn't the problem. We have a perfectly adequate system for storing information and scheduling. The problem is that it doesn't automate all of the little tasks that have to happened prior to and after each inspection. We'd like that stuff to become automatic - with a minimum of human input.

For instance, when our office manager schedules an inspection, she enters all of the information into a database. If she sets up the inspection with "Jim" and the customer wants a sewer scope and radon screening, then the office manager has to look up the fee, send out a contract to the customer, a notice to me, a home inspection notice to the agent, a notice about radon to the agent, a scheduling request to the radon guy, and a scheduling request to the sewer scope guy. If the inspection is in Washington, the contract has to be a WA contract, so that slightly alters the sequence. If the customer wants radon and not sewer (or sewer and not radon - or neither) then that alters the things that have to go out. Since there are 5 of us, there's a set of permutations like this for each inspector.

On a busy day, (most Mondays) she might have to do this for 20-25 inspections. Since she's fantastic at what she does, she can deal with this, but she occasionally goes on vacation and there's no way in hell that we can find someone else to do this for a few weeks a year, so we attempt it ourselves - and it invariably turns into a disaster. What we hope to do with ISN is have her enter the necessary information and then have the system take over all of the emailing of the various contracts and notices.

Can Horizon do that if we're not using their reporting system?

I'd be curious to know if this is common problem that other multi-inspector business' have.

[ghentjr]

I'd be curious to know if this is common problem that other multi-inspector business' have.

Yes it is.

[Les]

yes.

I believe there is not much correlation between the reporting system/method and the quality of inspection. To rely on or suppose a particular piece of software will generate a "good" report is wrong.

I understand Jim's comments, but they seem like a business management observation. I don't know what the current numbers are, but last I checked abt 90% of business was solo entity.

[Marc]

Report format, organization, and appearance factor into the quality of the report as much as the inspector's ability to read houses, interpret them and to write.

An inspector not skilled in effective written communication methods might find many of the current HI software packages entirely acceptable. That is the bigger obstacle faced by Scott B.

The best example of reporting style I've ever seen was written by Mark C. I don't know which HI software package he uses. I'm not even sure he uses any at all.

Marc

[Scottpat]

Report format, organization, and appearance factor into the quality of the report as much as the inspector's ability to read houses, interpret them and to write.

An inspector not skilled in effective written communication methods might find many of the current HI software packages entirely acceptable. That is the bigger obstacle faced by Scott B.

The best example of reporting style I've ever seen was written by Mark C. I don't know which HI software package he uses. I'm not even sure he uses any at all.

Marc

Marc, you do realize that reporting software is only the organizational framework for the report that is produced. Most all need a template and that template can be out of the box or completely custom made by the user, such is mine.

I don't think many individuals are skilled in written communication methods, heck I struggle to write semi properly and spell with almost everything I write!

[Nolan Kienitz]

Then there are some states (Texas being one) that has a "requirement" for a specific base template. That template gets changed by the TREC more often than we (or any software developer) likes, but if an inspector is caught using a template that does not match what is approved they are getting fined.

There have been near about 10 or so such disciplinary actions so far this year.

Now ... the verbiage and images I use for my reports are free range for choice. Many years of saved comments and adding 'ad-hoc' messages on any given inspection is extremely easy.

I use an application that simply "assembles" my reports and presents what I consider a very nice package. I can also make any/all changes I find necessary.

It is interesting to read comments about folks want "inspection writing" software ... I've never seen nor experienced such. Seems to me it is up to "me" to do the writing. I use the application to "assemble" my reports. Minor detail, but I'm just a bit anal-retentive about such.

For me (single user) the application I use keeps all my client, agent, builder data. Also generates my agreements, invoices, etc., etc..

The application also can synch to ISN (for those who want to use such), but I don't have a need for that.

BTW - the application I use is not limited to the Texas TREC required templates. I've built several different templates for other inspections I've done over the years that are not governed by TREC.

[scottb1978]

I understand Jim's comments, but they seem like a business management observation. I don't know what the current numbers are, but last I checked abt 90% of business was solo entity.

Are you saying that solo operators aren't much spending time sending out contracts & notices so it isn't as relevant to them?

[Jim Katen]

. . . I'd be curious to know if this is common problem that other multi-inspector business' have.

The other independent multi-inspector firms probably have similar problems. But there aren't many of them. The great majority of multi-inspector firms are franchises and they have their own proprietary systems for this kind of stuff. The overwhelming majority of inspectors out there are one-man or one-woman shops. This stuff is much simpler for them because looking after the paperwork for one inspector is pretty straightforward.

[Les]

I understand Jim's comments, but they seem like a business management observation. I don't know what the current numbers are, but last I checked abt 90% of business was solo entity.

Are you saying that solo operators aren't much spending time sending out contracts & notices so it isn't as relevant to them?

Nope, did not say that. You assume time is spent sending out contracts and notices. Many markets there is nothing going on in the process until the inspector gets to the site.

And, you made the assumption that it is not relevant.

What I meant to say was that multi inspector firms have different decisions to make and that trying to create a piece of software that can do it all is quite difficult. I believe simple is better.

Your audience here is varied; old, new, young, old, men, women, retired, etc. You have done a masterful job of engagement.