Plumbers cut the ground off

[John Kogel]

Who hasn't seen this? I had two last week, widely separated towns so two dum-ass plumbers. They see the grounding strap on the water line, 1950's basement. They cut the pipe, hook up the new plastic and leave.

I check the panels for an added grounding conductor, nope, just the one.

Is there no CE for plumbers? Are they all this stupid?

Click to Enlarge

31.46 KB

Click to Enlarge

66.96 KB

[Jim Port]

Is that the ground connected on the left pipe above the level of the pressure reducer?

[John Kogel]

Yes. This one was a solid copper undersized by today's standards.

[John Kogel]

Here's pics from the other place, left in the same unsafe condition. The seller was so proud of his new water shutoff valve from the Super Plumber.

Click to Enlarge

53.2 KB

Click to Enlarge

64.2 KB

Click to Enlarge

68.2 KB

[Jim Katen]

So John, I was under the impression that, in Canada, the service entrance side of a panel was supposed to be isolated from the distribution side. Do I have that wrong?

[John Kogel]

So John, I was under the impression that, in Canada, the service entrance side of a panel was supposed to be isolated from the distribution side. Do I have that wrong?

No, you are right. These old panels have separation when the deadfront is installed. The section over the service side has a 90 degree bend in it that forms a wall in the panel. Then the other half of the deadfront covers the circuit breaker section.

Like this Federal panel, for example. Branch circuits are not allowed in the service section.

Click to Enlarge

67.82 KB

[Jim Port]

You can see the slot cut in the flange on the sides of the box to accommodate the deadfront divider.

[Jim Katen]

You can see the slot cut in the flange on the sides of the box to accommodate the deadfront divider.

I can see that in the picture of the second panel that he posted, but in the picture of the first panel, it looks like it would be kind of sketchy to get such a cover in place without touching the bus tab under the backfed main.

[John Kogel]

You can see the slot cut in the flange on the sides of the box to accommodate the deadfront divider.

I can see that in the picture of the second panel that he posted, but in the picture of the first panel, it looks like it would be kind of sketchy to get such a cover in place without touching the bus tab under the backfed main.

Yes some designs are scarier than others. But I think that Westinghouse panel has a plastic divider. One Federal panel has the divider on an angle between two slits, so the cover flips the main breaker off when you try to pull the cover. I've had some funny things happen when I've turned power off to the whole house that way. One inspector I know has done some arc welding with that same panel design. Most of them have clearance and/or some kind of bus bar protection there. The new panels have a second cover under the main one-piece cover.