Spark or Ignition Source

[Brandon Whitmore]

I'm looking for a definition of a "spark or ignition source". Either from the NEC, or elsewhere in the codes. I'll be digging into this later, but am hoping someone has this info. on hand...

Thanks in advance if so.

[Chad Fabry]

From Fuel Gas definitions: A flame, spark or hot surface capable of igniting flammable vapors or fumes. Such sources include appliance burners, burner ignitors and electrical switching devices.

It's the same in Mechanical and Residential.

No definitions in Building or, ironically, Fire.

[Brandon Whitmore]

Thank you sir.

I've got a contractor to who disagrees with my assertion that a natural gas generator is considered a "spark or ignition source".

[John Kogel]

That is a good question. Assuming a newer NG generator, with electronic ignition, there is no more spark at the points, no more "points and condensor", anyone remember those?

The spark plugs are not exposed to the air.

The exhaust would be plumbed to the outdoors.

The breaker panel is a maybe.

Electric switches can be a spark source. I had a furnace fan switch last week that makes a visible spark when you switch it on manually.

The spark or ignition source is the brushes on the starter motor. [:-graduat So what are you telling him, to elevate it?

[Marc]

So that hot muffler isn't an ignition source?

The thing is HOT!

Marc

[Brandon Whitmore]

I work for a natural gas utility company. Our standards specify that the service regulator vent must be a min. of 3' from a spark or ignition source.

[Chad Fabry]

The generator has to be 5 feet from the structure anyway.

[patt]

Run an extension on the vent, if the regulator manufacturer allows it.

[Brandon Whitmore]

The generator has to be 5 feet from the structure anyway.

Yes, unless other requirements are met under NFPA 37 4.1.4

Here: http://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards ... de&code=37

In this case, they said they were going to install hardi board over the plywood siding, and that would suffice according to the building official. I don't deal with that part of it, so I didn't get involved. I have a feeling I could have found fault with their firewall installation.

[Brandon Whitmore]

Run an extension on the vent, if the regulator manufacturer allows it.

There was an AC unit on both the left and right sides of the meter set, and we reserve venting of our service regulators away from equipment only under special conditions.

In this case, it would have taken 15 feet of pipe, a vent pipe size increase due to the length, etc. As of now, we aren't willing to give up working space @ our set in order to accomodate a jammed in genset.

[Tom Raymond]

Funny. My meter, regulator, and vent are in the basement. Very common here.

[kurt]

Jeez...In Chicago, there's places that have the meter, regulator, and vent in someone's BR.

[Brandon Whitmore]

We have few inside meter sets(unfinished old town basements and garages), but move them out when it's possible. No matter what, they are all vented directly to the exterior.

Allowing service regulators to be vented to the interior is nuts in my opinion. But then again, so is having elevated pressure services running into the building.

You guys back east have a lot of uncoated steel and cast iron mains as well, hence the history of major gas incidents.

[kurt]

Shoot, we've had morons working on those gas mains in holes while smoking. Blew themselves up, down, and sideways. DRT, as in Dead Right There.

People's Gas Chicago back around '89-90. Gas service in old cities has an interesting history. Interesting, as in completely ****ing stupid.

[Tom Raymond]

It's no better in the country. We have stretches of rural road where you can smell the gas leak driving by with the windows closed. The utility says that can't find them.