4 X 4' s as combo beam-floor joist system?

[JPLomeo]

Has anyone ever inspected a floor system that utilizes 4x4s as a combination beam/floor joist, (no real joists and no beams) and how do you think this system performs? They are spaced 48 inches on center.

I inspected a home a little while ago (built in 1980) that had this unusual floor system. The floors inside the home were very uneven and lots of cracked -loose floor tile and grout, and some areas had excessive deflection underfoot. I have seen a handful of these floor systems over the years and the floors are usually uneven.

Someone (probably the home owner) decided to stiffen the floors and installed additional supports in between the original structure, using more 4x4 posts but with lots of 2x4's and 2x6's poorly installed. The structure is just a royal mess.

I recommended evaluation by a qualified framing contractor or an engineer. Now a contractor is telling my buyer that he wants to remove all the extra, poorly done re-enforcements and just restore the floor structure to its original configuration. He maintains that the re-enforcements alone have caused the floor issues.

He may be partially correct, and I agree with removing all the crap, but I seriously doubt that the original floor structure will not feel like a trampoline. After all, why did someone go through all the effort to try and re enforce the floors, if they were fine to begin with?

Any opinions much appreciated.

JP

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[Tom Raymond]

Your client needs a different house.

[JPLomeo]

Hi Tom,

Yep, that's pretty much what I told him in person. This is the second one they have paid me to inspect and both were dogs. I told them to let me know when they pick the next one and let me eyeball it first even before they bother to make on offer. Some people seem to have a knack for picking the crummy ones.

JP

[John Kogel]

They can rebuild that floor if they really have to have that house.

If your clients can't see that, then they are not competent to fix it either.

But what is there needs joists under it. Maybe best to cut the subfloor out so a proper build can be done.

That place is built like a tree fort or a hippy shack, so maybe priced accordingly. I just tell them what is needed to make it correct.

[Marc]

Is that the only issue with the framing?

If that framing mentality is consistent throughout the house, it would qualify for what I call a 'bulldozer' case: Buy the property for the land, bulldoze the house, then build a new one.

Bubba's on the move again.

Marc

[mjr6550]

I'd like to comment on that floor framing, but I'm speechless.

[Jim Baird]

Did you notice any stamps on the plywood decking? There looks to be some deficiency in the allowable spans for that decking.

The word "flimsy" comes to mind.

[JPLomeo]

Well, I talked some more sense into my clients and they did the right thing and ran away from this one.

Thanks for all you comments!