What do you think

[Steven Hockstein]

This is a second floor roof deck with the first floor gas fireplace venting through the deck. Is there any way this could be permitted? I say no. It seems obvious to me.

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[Mike Lamb]

503.6.6- Can't be within 8' of walls.

This termination would also create a nuisance IMO.

[Eric B]

Is there any way this could be permitted?

Sure it could. We've all seen crazy stuff that had muni approval. The appropriate question is whether there's any way it could be correct? That would have a different answer.

[Steven Hockstein]

I don't mean permit approval by the town, I mean permitted in accordance with any manufacturer's spec or obscure variation that I may not know about.

[Tom Raymond]

It clearly violates Lamb's citation, plus nearly all appliance manufacturers will have a minimum distance to operable windows, doors and intakes. Those tend to be less than 8' but generally require termination above or below the opening.

[Brandon Whitmore]

Direct vent appliances have different sets of rules, and the 8' rule likely doesn't apply.

Check G2427.2.1 & 2427.8 #3 here: http://ecodes.biz/ecodes_support/free_r ... %20Gas.pdf

This is OR's code, based on the IRC, so you'd have to cross reference with your applicable code.

It's quite likely this is an allowable installation. Not smart, but could be allowed.

What did the manufacturer's installation instructions state?

EDIT: Sorry, I just noticed that it appears you didn't read them. Did you take a pic of the manufacturer's nomenclature plate by chance (model/ serial number?)

[Bill Kibbel]

Direct vent appliances have different sets of rules, and the 8' rule likely doesn't apply.

Are there any direct vent appliances that use B-vents?

[Brandon Whitmore]

Here's the first manual I pulled up: http://www.napoleonproducts.com/downloa ... 5-0663.pdf

It indicates which vents can be used, shows clearance requirements, etc.

[Bill Kibbel]

Here's the first manual I pulled up: http://www.napoleonproducts.com/downloa ... 5-0663.pdf

It indicates which vents can be used, shows clearance requirements, etc.

I don't see any mention of B-vent installations, just names of vent manufacturers and specific adapters.

I thought direct vent decorative gas appliances required specific coaxial/concentric vent systems. I thought the space between walls of B-vents isn't intended to be used to supply combustion air. Yes? No?

[Steven Hockstein]

This is what I wrote about the fireplaces:

" There is a fireplace insert installed in the family room fireplace. The firebox and flue could not be seen or inspected within the scope of my inspection.

The gas fireplace in the master bedroom is operable. The remote control is damaged and needs replacement. The documentation for the installation of the fireplace should be obtained (permit and inspection approval). Note that the location of the flue pipe discharge through the second floor deck does not have enough clearance from the adjacent wall, roof, balcony, doors, and windows. This is a hazard that needs to be corrected.

I recommend that the fireplaces and flues be checked by a qualified chimney specialist prior to closing (a level two inspection-see exterior chimney notes for additional information). The cost of required work should be determined because chimney repairs are typically expensive."

[kurt]

Not bad. On these sorts of multiple issues with a single item, I've taken to writing.....

"The XYZ has several concerns including but not limited to:

1) blah

2) blah blah

3) blah blah blah

4) etc.

Any one of these items is a hazard/defect/issue and collectively they represent blah blah blah. Correcting them could mean removing and reinstalling etc etc. Get a guy etc. Have them check etc. Whatever else etc. "

Punching the specifics to a point list makes it easier for me to write and easier for the reader to pull out the specifics.

[Steven Hockstein]

Not bad. On these sorts of multiple issues with a single item, I've taken to writing.....

"The XYZ has several concerns including but not limited to:

1) blah

2) blah blah

3) blah blah blah

4) etc.

Any one of these items is a hazard/defect/issue and collectively they represent blah blah blah. Correcting them could mean removing and reinstalling etc etc. Get a guy etc. Have them check etc. Whatever else etc. "

Punching the specifics to a point list makes it easier for me to write and easier for the reader to pull out the specifics.

Interesting that you say that. An attorney I deal with recently suggested the same thing because it makes it easier for him to reference the items in my reports. I tend to be descriptive and he likes to easily identify issues in my reports.

I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks.[:-monkeyd

[Eric B]

The documentation for the installation of the fireplace should be obtained (permit and inspection approval).

I don't see the value in having the install docs since there are existing problems - no matter what they said they'd still be rather irrelevant.

[kurt]

Interesting that you say that. An attorney I deal with recently suggested the same thing because it makes it easier for him to reference the items in my reports. I tend to be descriptive and he likes to easily identify issues in my reports.

I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks.[:-monkeyd

Well, thanks. I've built a report software system based on providing information in list formats, including lists of photos. I've got boilerplate comments that can plug into any system....you punch in the boiler plate, put the cursor where you want it, clack out the list of specific items. Attorneys love it, even realtors can read it, and my clients that have experience with other systems tell me it's the best thing they've ever seen.

I know that I'm tilting at the ultimate windmill, but the entire HI report writing ethic is completely and totally screwed up. One can be descriptive while at the same time providing easily identified concerns in a list format.

To do that, one has to toss out the last 25 years of everything folks in this biz thinks is the way to write reports.

Yes, I'm comfortable having the entire profession consign me to the looney bin.....

[Marc]

Interesting that you say that. An attorney I deal with recently suggested the same thing because it makes it easier for him to reference the items in my reports. I tend to be descriptive and he likes to easily identify issues in my reports.

I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks.[:-monkeyd

Well, thanks. I've built a report software system based on providing information in list formats, including lists of photos. I've got boilerplate comments that can plug into any system....you punch in the boiler plate, put the cursor where you want it, clack out the list of specific items. Attorneys love it, even realtors can read it, and my clients that have experience with other systems tell me it's the best thing they've ever seen.

I know that I'm tilting at the ultimate windmill, but the entire HI report writing ethic is completely and totally screwed up. One can be descriptive while at the same time providing easily identified concerns in a list format.

To do that, one has to toss out the last 25 years of everything folks in this biz thinks is the way to write reports.

Yes, I'm comfortable having the entire profession consign me to the looney bin.....

You're darn right!

About the HI report writing ethic, that is[]

My latest endeavor is a format like some JLC print articles I've seen; all photos at the top half of page and neatly numbered. All copy in bottom half. I don't know if I have the word processor horsepower to do it though.

Marc

[kurt]

The beauty of DB. We really gotta get together so I can show you what FM can do.

[Marc]

The beauty of DB. We really gotta get together so I can show you what FM can do.

I've made several trips to a local Barnes/Noble that has a copy of a book on it. I've yet to see the light but it's not over.

Pondering that trip.

Marc

[Chad Fabry]

Direct vent appliances have different sets of rules, and the 8' rule likely doesn't apply.

Are there any direct vent appliances that use B-vents?

No

[Brandon Whitmore]

I thought direct vent decorative gas appliances required specific coaxial/concentric vent systems. I thought the space between walls of B-vents isn't intended to be used to supply combustion air. Yes? No?

Sorry for the late reply Bill.

I don't believe that any B vent is allowed for use w/ direct vent systems. I am by no means a venting expert, so I don't want to say that no B vent is listed for use as direct vent pipe.

The vent sections will typically have a label indicating it's for a direct vent system, or at least have a model # you can pull up. Dura- Vent's venting model #DV indicates direct vent, while their model #GV indicates it's a B vent.

Direct vent pipe example: http://www.ventingpipe.com/duravent-46d ... h/p1760240

I hope this helps.....

[Hearthman]

Direct vent pipe is co-axial meaning the air is entrained into the concentric space by thermosyphoning as the hot flue gases exhaust up the inner flue. No, B-vent is not the same thing as each length of B-vent is pinched on both ends creating a dead air space or Dewar's Flask effect insulating the flue lining. The vent exposed to a deck where people could be expected to come in contact with it is a problem. The vent could and should be encased in a chase maintaining clearance to combustibles and extend it up at least 7 feet away from people's faces. The listed instructions for that particular fireplace must be followed as they are the code. You can call out issues not directly addressed by the instructions or building code as they cannot anticipate every possible situation and people never cease to amaze me with their creativity.

HTH