Foreboding feeling

[kurt]

Same here. I don't recommend air gaps anymore; seen too many crap out & flood the countertop. High loops work fine; if there's no loop, I tell my folks.

[Darren]

How about a separate water shut-off valve; about 1/2 the time there's one valve for both the faucet & dishwasher.

Darren

[homnspector]

I agree, air gaps are junk.I don't see anything wrong with a single shutoff for the hot sink supply and dishwasher. Beats the ones that don't have any shutoff.

Not to change the thread, but should the dishwasher be plugged in in a location where it is easily unplugged (i.e. not under the dishwasher)?

[hausdok]

Hi All,

One of those little inconsequential things that many of us routinely write up, because, according to the manufacturer's instructions it's supposed to be installed, is the anti-tip bracket on stoves. Then the agents or builders kind of Pooh-Pooh it as a knit-picking quibble.

It's never bothered me that they Pooh-Pooh it - I write it up anyway, to cover my butt, and I move on. However, I've heard a lot of home inspectors say over the years that they don't write them up because it's really no big deal and because they don't perceive a missing anti-tip bracket as a real danger or an advantage for the homeowner.

This article that appeared in the press today is probably going to draw some attention to the 'quibble.' I hope those guys/gals who've been intentionally ignoring this for years don't become the recipients of some calls from unhappy customers, just because they were reluctant to call a $2 item.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[kurt]

I still think it's idiotic. I'd like to know the details of how these folks were killed or injured.

On several levels, I resent being made the point man for every possible thing that could happen in a house that results in injury; it's setting ourselves up for failure because the task is impossible.

If we are supposed to include something that resulted in slightly over 1 death per year, shouldn't we then include every last thing that results in significantly more deaths per year?

That is a very long list.

[allspec33351]

Kurt

Your right because a lot of zoids really get mad at me at my comments about two story homes. I recommend to my client that they never use the second level because stairs are the most dangerous components in a home based on statistics of some national organization.

Captain

[hausdok]

It's a matter of perspective, I guess.

Growing up, year after year, I watched my mother baste that Thanksgiving turkey by placing that big roasting pan containing Tom on the door of the oven. As an adult, I did it myself for many years. Then, one Thanksgiving, I was bending over in front of the stove, basting Tom, with a bunch of stuff cooking on the top burners, when the stove decided to tip over.

Guess what? Todays stoves aren't built as heavy as 40-50 years ago. Put a 20lb turkey in a pan on that door with a bunch of stuff, including boiling water, on top of the stove, and all of a sudden you've got a catapult. If my reflexes hadn't been so good, I probably would have been scarred for life. As it was, Thanksgiving Day was ruined and I ended up paying the army to install a new vinyl floor in the kitchen. They installed brackets after that.

Think of that bracket as a seat belt. You can ignore it for years and nothing will happen, but if you're not wearing it when it's needed, you could end up crippled for life, or worse.

Peoples kids are inventive. That open door makes a handy platform for a 4-5 year old to climb up onto the counter to get something out of the cupboard when Mom's not around to do it. Picture a little kid pinned by a stove flipped over on him/her.

That's why I call it.

MOFWIW

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

OT - OF!!!

M.

[kurt]

(OK, to continue flogging an obscure point that somehow has centrally attached itself to my otherwise orderly inspection business......)

It's not about the stove and the possibility for injury; of course folks can be injured by stoves. Or anything else.

Captain's point is perfectly taken; if this safety stuff is important, there should be no 2 story houses. If a bureaucratic organization exists to define oven brackets as something worth campaigning against, then there should be a full blown Federal, State, and Local strike force to rid the world of any stair not 7:12.

We advise folks on the need to test their own smoke alarms & CO monitors; this is something folks should be intimately involved with.

When do we get to advise them that they should read the safety manual, and take specific safety responsiblities upon themselves?

There was a completely innane thread a while back over on the ASHI board about "how to report that uncovered window well over @ the NW corner", or somesuch. It went on for a couple days w/all manner of inventive recommendations for how the window well should be covered to avoid serious injury, and how to appropriately convey this thunderstruck idea in words. IOW, a bunch of inspectors were actually sitting around trying to figure out how to tell folks how to not fall in a hole.

Is that what we're supposed to do?

[hausdok]

Hi Kurt,

I agree, there are a ton of things that are dangerous, and trying to report on all of them is, in a word, silly. However, there are obvious dangers and there are not-so-obvious dangers.

Stairs, the open window well, an exterior stairwell without a railing around it, a high deck without a balustrade, are all obvious dangers that even the dumbest client readily recognizes. You probably tell a client that they need to keep their roof and gutters clean, but you don't tell them not to walk on the roof 'cuz a fall off a roof will kill them, right? Well, that's the difference. It's the not-so-obvious stuff that we're talking about here.

If you'd caution the client about not allowing their toddler out on a deck with balusters that are more than 4 inches apart, until they close them up and add some interior netting, even though the deck was built before the 4-inch rule, because you realize that the child can slip through and the parent might not, you're doing the same thing. So, why not check that stove and caution them about a $2 bracket that's required by code to be installed and might prevent their child from being maimed? It takes only a second and you've warned them about something that will, literally, ambush them.

Do you recommend folks install a CO detector in a home equipped with fossil fuel burning appliances? Do you recommend that folks add GFCI receptacles in the kitchen or baths in a home built before they were required? Maybe you do, and in the process of doing so, you point out that there's nothing says that the homeowner, or anyone else, must add them, but doing so would be prudent because they've saved, literally, hundreds of thousands of lives since they were first used. That's an example of a not-so-obvious danger that your making the homeowner aware of.

Do you write up an overhead garage door opener when the photo-sensors are mounted too high or the door doesn't reverse itself properly, even when they're present and working and the door does reverse itself when grabbed high up? If so, why? You do it because there's a way that it should be and there's a way that it's not supposed to be, and it's the things that are not the way they are supposed to be, that are hidden dangers that we're warning the otherwise oblivious client about.

But that's just me. Everyone in this business has their hot buttons - things that they are particularly sensitive to - and each of us has to individually decide whether someone else's hot button is even on our own radar. There's no reason to let this kind of thing upset your chi. I certainly wouldn't think anything less of you for deciding that reporting on this kind of thing isn't important to your business, because that's entirely your call.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[ozofprev]

No.

Originally posted by kurt

Is that what we're supposed to do?

There's a big old goofy man, dancin' with a big old goofy girl. Oooh, baby, it's a big old goofy world.

[hausdok]

Hmmm,

Now where the heck did I archive those pictures of Kurt dancin' up a storm at the ASHI annual gig a few years ago? []

OT - OF!!!

M.

[Jim Morrison]

Mike,

Do a search for "Mitenbul-ah, the dancin' fool-ah.wmv" It'll pop up.

[hausdok]

ROFLMFAO!

OT - OF!!!

M.

[kurt]

I know, I know....

I report stuff; stairs, rails, guards, GFCI, smoke & CO, fire separations, egress, decks, & garage doors. Safety glass if I think of it @ the time.

Voted Best Dancer, Class of '71, Concord HS.

[ozofprev]

Cool, they didn't have square dancing at my school.

Originally posted by kurt

I know, I know....

I report stuff; stairs, rails, guards, GFCI, smoke & CO, fire separations, egress, decks, & garage doors. Safety glass if I think of it @ the time.

Voted Best Dancer, Class of '71, Concord HS.

[kurt]

Naah, that was 2nd grade; I was voted best square dancer. My partner was Cindy Atkins, light afoot & a worthy dancemate. We dazzled the crowds @ the Christmas Assembly, and we......aaah, but I digress.

'71 was pretty much spunk-n-funky. Once I leapt onstage w/Jon Mayall and cut loose; about the time the bruise boys were going to toss me offstage, the Great Bluesbreaker hizzelf said "let 'im go @ it...." and continued jamming. I departed the stage after the song to salutes from the band and a deafening roar.

[Brian G]

Originally posted by jhagarty

You need to go while searching for a home to be Inspected by Jim Morrison.

Nah, I'm just gonna go lay up at Jimmy's place. It's cheaper that way. []

Brian G.

What Are Friends For? [^]

[ozofprev]

I swear, the more you discover about people on this board, the cooler you find them.

So, aaah = yada yada yada? Please, digress.

Originally posted by kurt

Naah, that was 2nd grade; I was voted best square dancer. My partner was Cindy Atkins, light afoot & a worthy dancemate. We dazzled the crowds @ the Christmas Assembly, and we......aaah, but I digress.

'71 was pretty much spunk-n-funky. Once I leapt onstage w/Jon Mayall and cut loose; about the time the bruise boys were going to toss me offstage, the Great Bluesbreaker hizzelf said "let 'im go @ it...." and continued jamming. I departed the stage after the song to salutes from the band and a deafening roar.

[hausdok]

Originally posted by kurt

Naah, that was 2nd grade; I was voted best square dancer. My partner was Cindy Atkins, light afoot & a worthy dancemate. We dazzled the crowds @ the Christmas Assembly, and we......aaah, but I digress.

'71 was pretty much spunk-n-funky. Once I leapt onstage w/Jon Mayall and cut loose; about the time the bruise boys were going to toss me offstage, the Great Bluesbreaker hizzelf said "let 'im go @ it...." and continued jamming. I departed the stage after the song to salutes from the band and a deafening roar.

Phew! Definitely an uncontrollable extrovert. I've got to re-think this TIJ Cruise Convention idea. Can you imagine the kind of trouble he could get us into on a ship?

OT - OF!!!

M.