HI Professional Presentation

[Marc]

I agree with Les and would add 7. General incompetence is not limited to Regulatory Board members but is something that inherent in a profession like ours that does not have an available curriculum that works well.

Board members are typically chosen among HI candidates without scrutiny on a scale like what these Directors of law schools seem to be looking for. Hence, these regulatory boards usually perform poorly if not terribly.

Marc

[kurt]

Kurt, 3 and 3a are bothersome. I think you must go with a definition of terms. ie: an atty must read between the lines when viewing a cv. also I think some mention must be made of license vs registered vs certified vs etc. maybe quickly go thru how "regulation" takes many forms. That regulation is not and was not always formulated for consumer protection.

BTW your third from last paragraph does not make sense to me.

How are they bothersome? Everyone uses the term Certified, but it has almost no meaning. Some differences that will be noted:

1) Only one society has a "certification" with independent 3rd party that's recognized as a certifier (whatever that means). There are certifying approaches from other societies, but it's not clear who or what is doing the certifying or what it entails.

2) No State Certifies anyone or anything; it's a license, not certification.

Everyone uses the term, no one knows what it means. It's a completely ambiguous bunch of meaningless that's used extensively by everyone. I'll attempt explaining the goofiness, and let the youngsters form their own opinions.

The 3rd from last paragraph is my personal take on the profession as it now stands. It stinks. My generation and the one under me are the folks screwing it all up. Think ASHI School, Carson Dunlop and their completely doofus Horizon system, Palm Tech with the 150 page piles of nonsense, etc., etc., and the love fest for same by all the old guys that never learned how to write, think, and won't ever start. Report system acceptance by the old guys is that which is easiest to punch into a PDA and which minimizes time. Report systems tailored to inspectors ease of execution instead of consumer's understanding. Most guys don't know there's a box let alone how to think outside of it.

I am going to be talking to the new generation that don't question home inspections, have the correct distrust of realtors, and whose perception of home inspectors/home inspection is that it's a normal and necessary component of the transaction. All my youngster clients say stuff like "give me a good attorney and home inspector, and I'll take it from there".

I want to get to those people before someone with a Horizon report system does.

[resqman]

3a) What does licensing actually mean? (not much outside of revenue stream for State, although I remain a proponent for licensing.)

Worked in both licensed and unlicensed states.

That particular licensing board had to be self supportive, no state money. 2009-2012 they started getting panicky because people were not renewing their licenses or taking the state exam. Less revenue coming in but they still had a full time 4 person staff. Exec Director, 2 office people, and investigator. Why they needed 4 full time people year round to track 1100 licenses that all get renewed in Oct is another question...

Licensing weeded out the very worst test takers. Otherwise it created a minor hurdle to entry in the profession. It documented a path for a dissatisified client/consumer to punish an errant inspector. At the very least, state licensing required all inspectors to pass a test at least once and required continuing education every year. Consistent SOP statewide vs. to whatever association/club SOP you claim to follow. By no means did it create super inspectors or prevent bad inspectors -inspections.

Working in an unlicensed state where all you gotta do is say you are a home inspector is crazy. No test, no training, no nothing. Consumers have no recourse for bad inspections. Any SOP or No SOP is acceptable. Whatever you define as inspection counts. Don't wanna do something, don't.

Licensing does not cure all that ails the profession. But it does set a very basic minimum and makes most inspectors think a little bit harder about following the SOP.

[Jim Morrison]

I'm just a has-been home inspector, but I can say with confidence that I would never recommend an inspector who used any iteration of the phrase "Further investigation by a licensed professional is suggested," in a report. It goes back to Lord Katen's original post.

Also, I don't think anyone has ever read a home inspection report that was longer than 20 pages, and the real number is probably much closer to ten.

Any inspector who makes an attorney plow through 40-60 pages of, "Here's a brief history of the Hartford loop and a picture of yours" in order to find the vital, relevant information is probably not going to make the referral list.

Important information should be easy to find in the report, because -as most of us know- the truth is that very few people read the whole thing.

[Erby]

Licensing just proves that at one time the individual had a minimum level of competency and could take tests.

If state licensing was such a great deal, we wouldn't be complaining about all those state licensed drivers out there on the road.

Well, OK, it does allow the state to suck some money out of the inspectors! @*&^%$$%&^(*

[Marc]

It wouldn't take an immense effort to write a book that would form the foundation for a 90 hour curriculum. A regulatory body could adopt it and not only end reliance on a curriculum offered by a school but gain an opportunity to 'up the bar' in our profession and add true significance to the term 'license' by further expanding the book to support a 120 hour, 3 week, 3 month and perhaps eventually a 12 month school. This route that I've outlined here could really change our profession. It's doable.

I've set 9 chapters within an inaugural curriculum. Within the first chapter - Raw Materials - are several headers. The first of those headers is 'Minerals from the Earth' and the first topic under that heading is 'Clay'.

Just bought a 1953 copy of 'McGraw-Hill Series in Geology' which is devoted to clay. Trying to fit regular read/write sessions into my schedule and develop this topic. Anyone want to write on a topic, any topic except electric (Douglas has already done that very thoroughly), let me know. Douglas's book will become the official textbook for the 'Electrical' chapter. All drafts will be submitted to TIJ as articles for critique. Credits for this curriculum/book will go to TIJ except for the electric.

Marc

[Jim Morrison]

To write a readable, publishable book like that would be an enormous effort, which is why it hasn't been done yet. Ask Douglas how many hours he has into his series. Then ask him what he thinks it would take to put a book of comparable quality out that would cover most of what HI's do.

The only reason Electrical Inspections of Existing Dwellings exists is because Douglas knows the topic as well as anyone, had most of the photos, writes very well, had help, and was willing to risk working for very cheap.

You'd need a dozen or more Douglases to write the book you're thinking of and there just aint that many.

[Marc]

To write a readable, publishable book like that would be an enormous effort, which is why it hasn't been done yet. Ask Douglas how many hours he has into his series. Then ask him what he thinks it would take to put a book of comparable quality out that would cover most of what HI's do.

The only reason Electrical Inspections of Existing Dwellings exists is because Douglas knows the topic as well as anyone, had most of the photos, writes very well, had help, and was willing to risk working for very cheap.

You'd need a dozen or more Douglases to write the book you're thinking of and there just aint that many.

I agree. I never dreamed that it would be publisher-grade. Just good enough to sell it to our regulatory body as the defacto manual on the mandated pre-licensing training.

All the Board has to do is make it available to those approved as pre-licensing providers and let them print out as many copies as students they have. They'll be required to use it.

I know I'm not that good Jim.

Marc

[Jim Morrison]

I know I'm not that good Jim.

Marc

No one is. I meant no offense, but putting together the book you described would certainly be an immense effort.

[Marc]

I know I'm not that good Jim.

Marc

No one is. I meant no offense, but putting together the book you described would certainly be an immense effort.

I'm determined. Can I send you the first topic for critique when it's done?

Marc

[SNations]

Kurt, do I understand right that you're trying to use the report quality as a proxy for inspection quality? That's quite a daunting task.

I would just add that the percentage of the report devoted to problems should overwhelm the percentage devoted to the standard boilerplate description of the house and devoted to disclaimers.

[kurt]

Not sure where you got that understanding.

[SNations]

Not sure where you got that understanding.

From the first sentence of your original post:

"I'm working with the directors of the real estate department at a couple of local (well known and respected) law schools to develop a set of criteria for new real estate attorneys in evaluating HI's."

Are you trying to evaluate HI's but not evaluate the quality of the inspection?

[kurt]

I've lost my reading for comprehension or argument gauge and the accessory split hair-o-meter. When I find them, I'll take some measurements and see if I can explain it so everyone understands.

[Erby]

Dang Kurt, now you got me wanting a new accessory. I have a good comprehension or argument gauge but didn't know about the accessory split hair-o-meter.

Off to Google to find one.